1911 Firearm Addicts banner
1 - 20 of 48 Posts

·
You Don’t Know Me!
Joined
·
1,852 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As I sit here on this very first day of 2020 and think about life over the last 20 years there are a lot of things that come to mind. I think it is a good time to not just think about the last year but I see 2020 as pretty pivitol (I hope) as the last 20 years for many of us have been pretty hard years.

This brought to mind all of the innovation that has happen in that time. Technology has caused the speed of change in the world to accelerate exponentially. But in many ways I have to ask just how much has it really helped us in the last 20 years. Being in the technology industry I can tell you it has only further complicated my work life. All of the things we were told before the technology revolution about it making our lives simpler have really not come to fruition.

Now have these innovations made life a bit better...possibly. I think there is a case to be argued both ways.

On to the 1911 - during these 20 years we have also seen many innovations in the firearms industry as well. Lots of new models and designs have come out in that time. I can safely say that I have either owned or shot many (most?) of them. Like many of us here my thoughts have shifted back and forth between my beloved 1911 and other designs.

There is much to be said for the innovations in new firearms.

And there has been a host written about the 1911 since, well, 1911...

When designs last as long and are as highly revered as the 1911 there has to be something extremely valuable in the design other than it was the best thing at the time. The idea, much like a well made 1908 Elgin pocket watch (which I own and it keeps time as well as or better than all others I have owned), is that there is not only elegance in the design, but simplicity that makes it viable over such a long period of time.

So does the 1911 still have merit in a 2020 world?

I will go out on a limb and say that not only it has merit, but may be still the best selection on the market.

Now, I have made many comments on many post and created new ones about he value of capacity. Which has been contrary to the idea of the 1911 (really any single stack gun). And in many cases I still mentally flip back and forth, but lets take that out of the equation for the moment and assume that we all carry enough ammo to take care of a given situation.

Let’s also take out the debate around caliber because you can find a 1911 in just about any caliber. So you can have your cake and eat it too in this case.

Let’s remove the case around carryability because the 1911 comes in so many designs that you can find one that is comfortable to carry. Or simply bite the bullet and carry a Government model because, well, it still carries very well.

I want to focus on something that even I have called into question from time to time and that is its inhearnet design and reliability. And to be honest here, aside from the case of finding one that is finicky or that has a poorly tuned extractor here is my point of a 1911 design in a 2020 world;

I think anyone can learn to tun a 1911.

Look, the design is simple and if it is a good example of a faithfully designed gun then the simplicity of the design makes it pretty easy to work on.

When I came to the 1911 I had been working on traditional SIG P-Series guns and Berettas. I am a shade tree gunsmith, so I am happy to tackle anything. But I first saw the 1911 as voodo magic. Then I started really working on them and doing a bit of fitting of parts and, to be honest, I realized just how easy they were to work on. Even fitting small parts is not that hard.

The replacement of parts (outside of the highly custom fitted guns) is pretty straight forward and springs are easy to tune. I have broken down my share of guns that required 3 hands, a vice and special tools to get back together. Even my beloved SIG’s can require the young to be in just the right position between the teeth to get back together right.

A timeless design is timeless because of not only how well it is made but how simple that design tends to be. And I think that the 1911 is the night of simple design principles.

So, just some musings on this first day of 2020.
 

·
You Don’t Know Me!
Joined
·
1,852 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
You way overthink things.

Of course a 1911 has merit, and has for the past 109 years.
Wasn’t really overthinking it, more pondering it and pontificating.

...its a gift, its what I do...
 

·
Consider my signature line before replying . . . .
Joined
·
14,798 Posts
The only gun that I know of that in its original configuration, can be fully disassembled without any tools other than an empty shell casing.
 

·
Consider my signature line before replying . . . .
Joined
·
14,798 Posts
Wasn’t really overthinking it, more pondering it and pontificating.

...its a gift, its what I do...

In my case, it's never a gift, but most always a curse . . . . .
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,636 Posts
You way overthink things.
Sometimes that's just what is needed.

As a life long Mechanic I understand how machines work. Not many machines
can fix themselves, so a Machine Man is needed to fix the machines.

Many people who understand machines know they are designed by humans &
will have flaws. I can work on a 1965 Mercedes & get the feeling the designers
understood machines. Machines break so make room for the Mechanic to
get at & repair the problem. A mechanical person who understands how
to run & repair a machine, can design them the best.

Many of today's autos act like repair is an after thought. Parts in places where
getting at them is hampered by their location. As long as we have people designing
our machines who do not understand machines, & we will always have reliability issues.

John Moses Browning was a Genius & understood what a Combat firearm must be.
JMB designed the 1911 to save US GIs lives & to Run & Run & Run. If it
did break, it could be repaired in theater without special tools. Just what
a War pistol should be, rattles and all LOL. :)

To me the 1911 says, I will work for you, & you can repair & use me Forever!

That's just what my Holley 4 BBLs say every time I rebuild & tune one.
Machine Metal Auto part Silver Automotive super charger part
 

·
You Don’t Know Me!
Joined
·
1,852 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Sometimes that's just what is needed.

As a life long Mechanic I understand how machines work. Not many machines
can fix themselves, so a Machine Man is needed to fix the machines.

Many people who understand machines know they are designed by humans &
will have flaws. I can work on a 1965 Mercedes & get the feeling the designers
understood machines. Machines break so make room for the Mechanic to
get at & repair the problem. A mechanical person who understands how
to run & repair a machine, can design them the best.

Many of today's autos act like repair is an after thought. Parts in places where
getting at them is hampered by their location. As long as we have people designing
our machines who do not understand machines, & we will always have reliability issues.

John Moses Browning was a Genius & understood what a Combat firearm must be.
JMB designed the 1911 to save US GIs lives & to Run & Run & Run. If it
did break, it could be repaired in theater without special tools. Just what
a War pistol should be, rattles and all LOL. :)

To me the 1911 says, I will work for you, & you can repair & use me Forever!

That's just what my Holley 4 BBLs say every time I rebuild & tune one.
View attachment 384601
Lord I have torn down and rebuilt many a Holly and Rochester carb.

Yes, I am totally with you and that is where my pondering has taken me today, the things that I own that are infinitely rebuildable. I have a ‘96 and an ‘09 BMW GS with the vulnerable boxer engines. I keep them because they can be run hundreds of thousands of miles and just be rebuilt. This holiday I have pulled the rear shock off the ‘09 (the ESA version) and will replace it with a good old rebuildable shock. I dont use the ESA aspect of the shock anyhow, I set it and forget it. So I will keep the bike but put rebuildable parts on it as I go along.

Back on the 1911, I think I could probably keep it going for a really long time with parts I have on hand. Keep a few extra springs, which I do, and there you have it. Good to go.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,636 Posts
Speaking of Holleys, here is my 57 Chevy back in the day.....
Love that hand off :happy: somebody knows how to tune a Holley.
Many Carbs have problems with Blowers, not Holleys.

We could ask.

What real world improvements have been made to the 1911 to present day
that made them more reliable. From 1911 to 1911A1 improvements were
built into the 1911A1 that really made a difference. Did they? :confused:

I have 3 1911s & they just run & run. I have no need to modify them,
they just seem to work as advertized. :) I can polish & fit parts into
my 1911s, other than being tighter the system is all still 1911.
 

·
Consider my signature line before replying . . . .
Joined
·
14,798 Posts
We could ask.

What real world improvements have been made to the 1911 to present day
that made them more reliable. From 1911 to 1911A1 improvements were
built into the 1911A1 that really made a difference. Did they? :confused:

.
Dunno about the M1911 to M1911A1 upgrades, but the following modern changes are viewed by me as improvements.

  • Lowered ejection port
  • Magwells
  • Just about most sights
  • The Marvel disco cut
  • The Logman slide stop groove
  • Bobtail on select models
  • Commander length barrel and slide
  • Challis grip bushings
  • G10 grip material
I could mention more, but they may be primarily aesthetic.

Z
 

·
Pulling my hair.
Joined
·
33,192 Posts
As I sit here on this very first day of 2020 and think about life over the last 20 years there are a lot of things that come to mind. I think it is a good time to not just think about the last year but I see 2020 as pretty pivitol (I hope) as the last 20 years for many of us have been pretty hard years.

This brought to mind all of the innovation that has happen in that time. Technology has caused the speed of change in the world to accelerate exponentially. But in many ways I have to ask just how much has it really helped us in the last 20 years. Being in the technology industry I can tell you it has only further complicated my work life. All of the things we were told before the technology revolution about it making our lives simpler have really not come to fruition.

Now have these innovations made life a bit better...possibly. I think there is a case to be argued both ways.

On to the 1911 - during these 20 years we have also seen many innovations in the firearms industry as well. Lots of new models and designs have come out in that time. I can safely say that I have either owned or shot many (most?) of them. Like many of us here my thoughts have shifted back and forth between my beloved 1911 and other designs.

There is much to be said for the innovations in new firearms.

And there has been a host written about the 1911 since, well, 1911...

When designs last as long and are as highly revered as the 1911 there has to be something extremely valuable in the design other than it was the best thing at the time. The idea, much like a well made 1908 Elgin pocket watch (which I own and it keeps time as well as or better than all others I have owned), is that there is not only elegance in the design, but simplicity that makes it viable over such a long period of time.

So does the 1911 still have merit in a 2020 world?

I will go out on a limb and say that not only it has merit, but may be still the best selection on the market.

Now, I have made many comments on many post and created new ones about he value of capacity. Which has been contrary to the idea of the 1911 (really any single stack gun). And in many cases I still mentally flip back and forth, but lets take that out of the equation for the moment and assume that we all carry enough ammo to take care of a given situation.

Let’s also take out the debate around caliber because you can find a 1911 in just about any caliber. So you can have your cake and eat it too in this case.

Let’s remove the case around carryability because the 1911 comes in so many designs that you can find one that is comfortable to carry. Or simply bite the bullet and carry a Government model because, well, it still carries very well.

I want to focus on something that even I have called into question from time to time and that is its inhearnet design and reliability. And to be honest here, aside from the case of finding one that is finicky or that has a poorly tuned extractor here is my point of a 1911 design in a 2020 world;

I think anyone can learn to tun a 1911.

Look, the design is simple and if it is a good example of a faithfully designed gun then the simplicity of the design makes it pretty easy to work on.

When I came to the 1911 I had been working on traditional SIG P-Series guns and Berettas. I am a shade tree gunsmith, so I am happy to tackle anything. But I first saw the 1911 as voodo magic. Then I started really working on them and doing a bit of fitting of parts and, to be honest, I realized just how easy they were to work on. Even fitting small parts is not that hard.

The replacement of parts (outside of the highly custom fitted guns) is pretty straight forward and springs are easy to tune. I have broken down my share of guns that required 3 hands, a vice and special tools to get back together. Even my beloved SIG’s can require the young to be in just the right position between the teeth to get back together right.

A timeless design is timeless because of not only how well it is made but how simple that design tends to be. And I think that the 1911 is the night of simple design principles.

So, just some musings on this first day of 2020.
Thanks for your thoughts!!!!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
821 Posts
I think the 1911 is the same as it's always been. It is a highly effective tool in the right hands. Yes, modern guns hold more rounds and may be able to run longer without maintenance, but someone who carries a 1911 will usually understand it's limitations, and as such, many become exceptional with it to compensate. It requires more attention, care, and dedication to truly master as a combat pistol. Not to mention, to this day there is no other pistol on the market that can compete with the 1911's trigger, nor is there any other gun with a grip so widely accepted as "perfect". The fact that the 1911 is still one of the most popular handguns over 100 years later just means that JMB was a genius WAY ahead of his time. I can only imagine what kind of things he would've come up with were he to be alive today.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,636 Posts
What real world improvements have been made to the 1911 to present day that made them more reliable.
Dunno about the M1911 to M1911A1 upgrades, but the following modern changes are viewed by me as improvements.
I totally agree about changes that could be looked at as improvements to the 1911.

However when you just focus on the reliability part, it seems the original 1911 ran
6000 nonstop rounds to win the Pistol contest. Now that's reliable :)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,115 Posts
There was that old saying from engineers (and programmers) to the effect that

"Perfection does not occur when there is nothing left to add. Perfection occurs when there is nothing left to take away."

There may be firearms today that are easier to run for some folk. But the thing that really causes the 1911 to stand out from its peers, and children, and grandchildren, is the elegance (in the engineering sense) of the design.

CC
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
The 1911 is perfection, as it has been for the past 100+ years. It work still, and mechanically it is very sound, and that will never change until we move from cartridge type firearms. You can customize it, accurize it, etc. The 1911 just works and aesthetically it's a beautiful piece of mechanical gear. It comes in different calibers, but I like it in .45ACP. Not b/c of knock down power or whatever...just because that's the caliber it started out in...then the others came later. So yes, it does have merit still, even in today's technically advanced society.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
821 Posts
The 1911 is perfection, as it has been for the past 100+ years. It work still, and mechanically it is very sound, and that will never change until we move from cartridge type firearms. You can customize it, accurize it, etc. The 1911 just works and aesthetically it's a beautiful piece of mechanical gear. It comes in different calibers, but I like it in .45ACP. Not b/c of knock down power or whatever...just because that's the caliber it started out in...then the others came later. So yes, it does have merit still, even in today's technically advanced society.
Agreed. Firearms technology is currently in a stalemate. There hasn't been real innovation in a very long time, just the same designs rehashed over and over. That being said, I don't know how else to further innovation with current technology.
 

·
I gotta have more cowbell
Joined
·
3,518 Posts
As I sit here on this very first day of 2020 and think about life over the last 20 years there are a lot of things that come to mind. I think it is a good time to not just think about the last year but I see 2020 as pretty pivitol (I hope) as the last 20 years for many of us have been pretty hard years.

This brought to mind all of the innovation that has happen in that time. Technology has caused the speed of change in the world to accelerate exponentially. But in many ways I have to ask just how much has it really helped us in the last 20 years. Being in the technology industry I can tell you it has only further complicated my work life. All of the things we were told before the technology revolution about it making our lives simpler have really not come to fruition.

Now have these innovations made life a bit better...possibly. I think there is a case to be argued both ways.

On to the 1911 - during these 20 years we have also seen many innovations in the firearms industry as well. Lots of new models and designs have come out in that time. I can safely say that I have either owned or shot many (most?) of them. Like many of us here my thoughts have shifted back and forth between my beloved 1911 and other designs.

There is much to be said for the innovations in new firearms.

And there has been a host written about the 1911 since, well, 1911...

When designs last as long and are as highly revered as the 1911 there has to be something extremely valuable in the design other than it was the best thing at the time. The idea, much like a well made 1908 Elgin pocket watch (which I own and it keeps time as well as or better than all others I have owned), is that there is not only elegance in the design, but simplicity that makes it viable over such a long period of time.

So does the 1911 still have merit in a 2020 world?

I will go out on a limb and say that not only it has merit, but may be still the best selection on the market.

Now, I have made many comments on many post and created new ones about he value of capacity. Which has been contrary to the idea of the 1911 (really any single stack gun). And in many cases I still mentally flip back and forth, but lets take that out of the equation for the moment and assume that we all carry enough ammo to take care of a given situation.

Let’s also take out the debate around caliber because you can find a 1911 in just about any caliber. So you can have your cake and eat it too in this case.

Let’s remove the case around carryability because the 1911 comes in so many designs that you can find one that is comfortable to carry. Or simply bite the bullet and carry a Government model because, well, it still carries very well.

I want to focus on something that even I have called into question from time to time and that is its inhearnet design and reliability. And to be honest here, aside from the case of finding one that is finicky or that has a poorly tuned extractor here is my point of a 1911 design in a 2020 world;

I think anyone can learn to tun a 1911.

Look, the design is simple and if it is a good example of a faithfully designed gun then the simplicity of the design makes it pretty easy to work on.

When I came to the 1911 I had been working on traditional SIG P-Series guns and Berettas. I am a shade tree gunsmith, so I am happy to tackle anything. But I first saw the 1911 as voodo magic. Then I started really working on them and doing a bit of fitting of parts and, to be honest, I realized just how easy they were to work on. Even fitting small parts is not that hard.

The replacement of parts (outside of the highly custom fitted guns) is pretty straight forward and springs are easy to tune. I have broken down my share of guns that required 3 hands, a vice and special tools to get back together. Even my beloved SIG’s can require the young to be in just the right position between the teeth to get back together right.

A timeless design is timeless because of not only how well it is made but how simple that design tends to be. And I think that the 1911 is the night of simple design principles.

So, just some musings on this first day of 2020.
You nailed it as always, and somehow you always draw me in with a common experience.

In the 80s, I used to compose maybe three business memos a day and receive maybe 10 to 15 a day. I wrote them by hand , gave them to the secretary to type , proof read them, had another set of eyes proof read , make changes and go. Fast forward to 2014 and I was averaging writing over 50 email a day and receiving 240+ a day. It was a full time job just to do email.


The thing is, we as a company we’re actually far more effective before the dawn of technology “made things easier” We measured our thoughts better back in the day and caluculated our words carefully as we knew it had to be right the first time . We didn’t waste each other’s time jousting over verbiage with a huge cc list to witness. We made efficient efforts . Now technology just floods the inbox with volumes of nonsense .

oh and rat bike rod, I too have an Elgin pocket watch. I’m not sure if the year, but it at one time belonged to my great grandfather who was born in the 1880s. It keeps perfect time.
 
1 - 20 of 48 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top