25 yard vs 50 yard Accuracy Guarantees

Discussion in 'General 1911 talk' started by Nineteen-ElevenObsession, Sep 1, 2020.

  1. Nineteen-ElevenObsession

    Nineteen-ElevenObsession Well-Known Member

    172
    Jun 21, 2020
    Assuming a gun comes with a 25 yard guarantee, what would be reasonable expectations for 50 yard accuracy out of the same gun? Wilson obviously has it's 1" @ 25 yards. ACW has 1.5" @ 25 standard. While some of the others like NHC, Brown, etc. don't explicitly state theirs, I'd assume pretty similar capabilities.

    I have a few Wilsons and while the 15 yards test targets certainly imply the capability of 1" @ 25 yards, I've never verified that. In no way am I that good of shot to begin with and I don't have access to a ransom rest. But just curious what would the probable accuracy be at 50 yards for most high-end guns?

    Despite not being able to shoot anywhere near that well, I still find myself considering a gun with a 50 yards guarantee like Accuracy X or Chambers Custom. Not entirely for the accuracy guarantee itself, but just wondering if I'd even see a noticeable difference at my skill level.

    I'm pretty accurate out about to 15 yards or so. Maybe holding to 2 inch groups shooting off hand and standing when I really take my time. By no means a bullseye shooter though.
     
    esmith1721 and Brennerman like this.
  2. Dreadnought

    Dreadnought Well-Known Member

    316
    May 5, 2020
    A highly accurate gun won’t magically improve your skills if you’re not good enough to take advantage of the accuracy.

    It will just show up the mistakes your’re making all the clearer.

    No shad being thrown. I don’t think I’m as accurate as many of my guns.
     

  3. Greg Derr

    Greg Derr Custom Pistolsmith Supporting Addict Sponsor

    656
    Oct 3, 2011
    My perspective: like car speedometers that show top speeds of 150, they may never see that even going down hill. Most 1911’s will outshoot the marksman behind it. Unless you are into NRA bullseye shooting you will not see any change in your shooting. Then we have the ammo. To get ultimate accuracy requires gun specific loads, designed and made precisely. Then you have the sights. If you are running fixed sights then you will lose point of impact accuracy, not to be confused with barrel accuracy. Some makers make guarantees which sometimes are hard to see. I’ve had guns shoot fantastic groups one day and Not as fantastic groups a few days later. Weather barometric pressure maybe? Talk to a precision rifle shooter for ten minutes about what goes into accuracy. So in all sincerity, unless you are match grade serious, put more into reliability.
     
    isialk, Jester249, ZArugby and 34 others like this.
  4. rmac

    rmac Well-Known Member Supporting Addict

    837
    Jan 26, 2016
    Best 1911 post of the day!
     
    isialk, DSTallguy, Jwp and 7 others like this.
  5. Glock2740

    Glock2740 1911 addict Staff Member Moderator

    Aug 16, 2011
    It’s all about marksmanship.
    I can shoot so well, that even with my Rock Island 1911’s, I can shoot 1 shot 1 hole groups at 100 yards every time.
     
    Bugs, Gordy, A45GUNNER and 12 others like this.
  6. Nineteen-ElevenObsession

    Nineteen-ElevenObsession Well-Known Member

    172
    Jun 21, 2020
    This is so very wise and enlightening. Thanks for that perspective.
     
  7. Nineteen-ElevenObsession

    Nineteen-ElevenObsession Well-Known Member

    172
    Jun 21, 2020
    Now that’s some impressive shooting!

    Can’t have a flyer if you only shoot once.:D
     
  8. azguy1911

    azguy1911 I'm done buying guns, I'm just a bystander now

    Oct 22, 2015
    I love everything about 1911' except these accuracy guarantees. There never has been a more useless feature/selling point.

    Walk out a 12" target to 50 yards, you guys couldn't even see it :laugh: never mind hit it
     
  9. cundiff5535

    cundiff5535 Chambers Custom Owners Club

    Apr 1, 2013
    With all due respect, I am not 100% sure I agree with this in its entirety. I am by no means a bullseye shooter... like not at all. I can tell you this, I can shoot 95's to 98's pretty consistently these days at 25 yards with one pistol I have, and the best I can do with the next is in the mid 80's. Same shooter, tuned ammo for each gun, but different gun... mechanical advantage in terms of accuracy and trigger work makes a huge difference (at least for me).

    Ill agree that ammo can make a big difference... and Ill agree outside shooting weather conditions come into play... but the weather is much more relevant to rifle shooters as the further the distance you are shooting, the greater the impact of elements...

    With that said, I am a cool aide drinker and HUGE believer that internal parts such as proper barrel fit, trigger, and the likes is what separate some guns built by masters of the craft. Gregg, if I am speaking bluntly... Ive had and seen guns built by "guild" representatives and highly highly respected gunsmiths that were total crap. Id never call anyone out by name publicly... but the fact of the matter is this is the truth and not some myth that some want shooters to think is false.

    Proper barrel fit and internal work ultimately is what gives and allows a firearms to keep and maintain it accuracy past 2K rounds... and this is also what allows me to shoot 10-15 points higher using some guns than others.
     
  10. cundiff5535

    cundiff5535 Chambers Custom Owners Club

    Apr 1, 2013
    I can tell you that @Fracs and myself were hitting steel at 200 yards with a Chambes Custom Night Fighter in mid March at @Joe C farm. So... as much as you like to say this, it is false. I used to be in a similar school of thought... My minds been changed.
     
  11. Apollo99

    Apollo99 Well-Known Member

    Jun 26, 2017
    I would never buy a 1911 with a 1"@25yard guarantee, that would completely ruin all my "it's the gun" excuses when I miss at 10 yards. I somehow always have bad bowling balls, hockey sticks and baseball gloves. It's not me, it's always the equipment, and I'm sticking to that.
     
  12. Nineteen-ElevenObsession

    Nineteen-ElevenObsession Well-Known Member

    172
    Jun 21, 2020
    I can consistently ring a 12" steel plate at 100 yards with my glock, but I don't really shoot pistols at long distances for the most part.

    But a CC is high on my list right now. Not that I'll ever come close to reaching it's potential, but it's nice to know it's there.
     
    Dan, Joe C and cundiff5535 like this.
  13. NIU2009

    NIU2009 Active Member

    168
    Nov 6, 2018
    Any accuracy guarantee is tied to a specific brand/weight ammo, usually match stuff. That alone makes it worthless to me, since I don't shoot in competition. I find a cheap practice ammo and whatever JHP the gun likes, and if I can keep it 3" at 25 yards, then I'm more than happy.
     
  14. wrmiller

    wrmiller The Tinker

    Oct 29, 2016
    Yea I did this with my 70s Gold Cup after my mentor fitted a barrel and bushing to it.
     
    GEORGE STONE, Badabing11 and Dub like this.
  15. Jim w.

    Jim w. Well-Known Member

    Jul 27, 2016
    I am no longer a particularly accurate shooter, but I can still appreciate the quality that provides mechanical accuracy.

    For purposes of comparison, I don't try to evaluate one ragged hole at 13 39/47 yards or ringing Grandma's skillet across the south 40, however good shooting that may represent. I look at the NRA 50 yard B6 target. Can your accurate gun + ammo hit its 1.695" X ring every time? If it won't, you can't sell it to a serious competitor. The top gunsmiths are delivering even better accuracy than that.
     
    *Double Diamond Colt* likes this.
  16. Snakebill

    Snakebill Well-Known Member

    209
    Feb 19, 2018
    My opinion on this, properly fit barrel and bushing are going to make a difference. When I got my Les Baer Pll with standard accuracy guarantee, I initially started to break it in with Winchester white box 45’s. After 300 or so rounds I switched to my hand loaded 200gr swc. I saw a noticeable difference in my groups. Hand loaded groups were half the size. Ammo quality is a huge factor and the pistols potential is different than what it will do with crappy or bulk ammo. This is the same scenario I get with my Wilson CQB. Armscorp 38 super vs my handloads is a world of difference accuracy wise.
     
  17. Yoemen66

    Yoemen66 Well-Known Member

    473
    Aug 10, 2017
    In my experience....a gun that is very accurate at 15 yards will be very accurate at 25 or 50 yards or more.

    The guarantees? Eh not worth much to me. I have yet to hear anyone getting a refund or something on a guns accuracy guarantee.

    I know some who have claimed a lack of accuracy, gun was sent back and the smith shot a new target showing accuracy was met and sent it back to the shooter.

    Also, accuracy is so dependent on the shooter and how they handle the gun anyway.

    A guarantee or target helps indicate gun accuracy, but it doesn't guarantee you will shoot it accurately.
     
    A45GUNNER, Badabing11 and wrmiller like this.
  18. wrmiller

    wrmiller The Tinker

    Oct 29, 2016
    And if you're not physically witnessing the test target shooting, you don't know if it was your gun or not, at what yardage, etc.. IMO test targets are good fireplace tinder.
     
  19. Yoemen66

    Yoemen66 Well-Known Member

    473
    Aug 10, 2017
    I'll add. Some shooters are more sensitive to changes than others based on how they shoot.

    Example- I shoot old side x side shotguns. I have parkers that range in stock length from 13 inches to 15.5 inches. Some of them have very little drop at heel and others have 3.5 inches of DAH. I can shoot all of them very accurately from shooting them. I know other shooters that have to have stocks that fit them perfectly or they can't shoot for squat. Some of that is mental I admit but I know some is physical as well.

    Same with 1911s. Some people are really sensitive to a guns function and others seem better able to adjust to different guns.

    I have seen people with really high end semi customs built around one build philosophy that shoot far better with someone else's gun that was built differently.

    Both are accurate guns, but how they were built is different.
     
    Badabing11 likes this.
  20. wrmiller

    wrmiller The Tinker

    Oct 29, 2016
    I certainly couldn't see the holes, that's for sure. Which is why I like a 6" steel swinger at 100 yds.
     
    HOGRIDER likes this.

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