1. Songcatcher

    Songcatcher Nose to the grindstone

    Mar 15, 2018
    Yeah but a bigger hole don't hurt none neither.
    I stole this from somewhere I can't remember where, maybe here, but I thought it was worth keeping.
    "If I was just shooting to shoot it wouldn't matter much. In a striker gun I don't mind carrying a 9 one bit, 12, or 15+ rnds. But I'm carrying a 1911 now, and I carry for defense.. And I know realistically that I'm not the best shot in the world, and I also know that if the time comes I'm gonna need all the help I can get, so when I look at this their's really only one answer for me."
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
    rmac, Brennerman, OldCuz and 2 others like this.
  2. Mike A

    Mike A Well-Known Member Supporting Addict

    Mar 19, 2017
    9 vs 45.jpg
    Business means center mass & a big slow fat bullet means sudden shock.
    Carry an AK 47 if you need more than a 1911 with 8 or 9 rounds of .45 acp
    I chose a fat heavy bullet to impact max energy, after all I would not bet
    my life on that .355 opening up to .451 everytime.

    9 vs 45.jpg
    Songcatcher and OldCuz like this.

  3. Wake27

    Wake27 Active Member

    Oct 16, 2017
    Yeah **** was way better back in early nam with .30 cal rifles and .45s, velocity doesn’t mean a thing.

    The argument about 9mm being better now that it is more modernized doesn’t mean that .45 didn’t get better too. The argument is that since all things are not equal, the larger hole of a .45 is only one factor to consider. Softer recoil impulse, cost, and especially capacity can now be weighed more heavily because the terminal performance gap has been closed between the two.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
    Man of Corn and Mike A like this.
  4. Dinklefwat

    Dinklefwat New Member

    Feb 29, 2016
  5. OldCuz

    OldCuz Raleigh NC Supporting Addict

    Mar 22, 2020
  6. Lineman1982

    Lineman1982 Well-Known Member

    Dec 21, 2018
    No you didn’t!
  7. OldCuz

    OldCuz Raleigh NC Supporting Addict

    Mar 22, 2020
    Yes I did. What do you expect? You know I love a 10.
    Old Sea Dragon and Lineman1982 like this.
  8. Gmanphx

    Gmanphx Well-Known Member

    Feb 15, 2018
    I carry .45 because it is comfortable and hit what I aim at. I have many .45 and one 9mm.
    joe45, Dub, OldCuz and 1 other person like this.
  9. Mike A

    Mike A Well-Known Member Supporting Addict

    Mar 19, 2017

    I understand that the round matters most when in the right format like the 5.56 NATO in an M16 great lightweight 0 to 300 yard carbine. I do like the 9mm in the MP5 it's so much more useful than a .45 acp fed Thompson SubMachine gun ,it's much easier to hit with as well.

    If I can only get 1 round in the target it has to count so make it count ,it's all about shocking the nervous system. Shock stops attacks & big bullets going through a body impart more shock to the system than smaller high speed bullets. The Brits in WII said of the .455 Webley Revolver & it's huge bullet it was about Dwell time. The time a body has to impart shock was known as dwell time & the faster bullets blew threw without much energy transfer of shock!

    MP5 can hit a target with more than 1 round & that shocks the target more than a .355
    bullet that in a perfect world may open to .451 a bigger hole = more shock. If all I had was a 9mm 1911, I would just practice double tap & keep shooting till it falls. An addict needs to know his limitations, & if I could not handle the .45 any longer I would change to a Micro Uzi :happy:
    yes select fire.

    Of course all those who tested the rounds we use today in real life comparisons like WAR
    so read the history & make up your own minds. After all it's your life & you need to be confident in your choice of weapons & ammunition. Don't take my word for anything, do your own research & make that first shot count. Good
    luck to us all :usa: GOD Bless the USA.
    Dub, OldCuz, Whiten and 2 others like this.
  10. shooter1911

    shooter1911 Member

    May 16, 2018
    To quote Ken Hackathorn, "I think 45 is better than 9mm. I just don't know how much better". I personally don't question the effectiveness of modern day 9mm premium ammo, but I also still rely on 45 ACP as my caliber of choice, but for different reasons than most. Although I'm very comfortable shooting the 45, a primary reason I stick with this caliber is because when we have situations where ammo is not readily available, like we are facing right now, I am confident in switching to my reloads which are either 200gr SWC, or 230gr FMJ for EDC. 45 ball ammo has been proven over the years as an effective stopper, but 9mm ball has had the opposite record of success. Being that I always have 500 to 1,000 reloads ready to go, I feel my needs are covered. Should I run out of HSTs, I'm good to go for a good while. Like I said, I don't question the 9mm with premium ammo, but I feel better with my system of using 45s.
    rmac, Dub, Amp Mangum and 3 others like this.
  11. Magnumite

    Magnumite Active Member

    Feb 20, 2012
    I’m getting ready to build a CCO pattern pistol. It will have two top ends, a 9 and a 45.

    The 9 top endwill be the primary because:
    - I can get one or two more in the officer mag;
    - modern ammo effectiveness is similar.

    The 45 top end is being built because:
    - if I perceive really needing an edge, the 45 will give it;
    - I’ve seen what works on ‘things’. The 45works.
  12. Old Sea Dragon

    Old Sea Dragon Well-Known Member

    Feb 10, 2018
    An excellent point!
    Dub likes this.
  13. Wake27

    Wake27 Active Member

    Oct 16, 2017
    You’re referencing data from 70+ years ago? I’m not sure that I’ve ever heard an argument about shock stopping a threat. The only thing with anything close to certainty is a shot to the CNS, just about everything else is going to rely on bleeding out or the HOPE that something physiological like fear or shock convinces them to stop. Hope isn’t a course of action but good luck with that.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Mike A likes this.
  14. Dub

    Dub born in the wrong century

    Mar 19, 2017

    I like having two CCO pistolas.....one in each caliber. Sure carry easy.

    I’ve been pleased with each. Both more accurate than I am.
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
    simonp likes this.
  15. Uncle Bob

    Uncle Bob Well-Known Member Supporting Addict

    Sep 22, 2017
    With the current generation of self defense ammo, shot placement is far more critical than caliber. I carry both, casual is 9 (LWC), officially (when I do) it's also 9 because of issue ammo. However personally if I know I'm going to be wary for any reason, it's 45acp and I'm actually more accurate with a 45 5". My original PD firearm was a series 80 Colt, 45acp. That was after years of IPSC with series 70s (45acp).
    1911_Bandit likes this.
  16. Mike A

    Mike A Well-Known Member Supporting Addict

    Mar 19, 2017
    I'll just toss this your way for your data bank.
    The slow FMJ .45 acp is most likely to stop an attacker
    with not so lethal trauma.
    The 125 gr JHP 357 magnum is most likely to kill due
    to the ripping of important organs & tissue.

    I am sure you can Google the same historical data I did.
    So a few last thoughts. Many Snipers I have met believe that
    if they put a .308 or .223 through the enemies foot not head
    because you can not see it. That will take the fight out of many,
    Shock you say yea that'll do it.

    Not the same as a handgun bullet but the same thought, matters
    not how fast only how big that stick/bullet is that is going through my body.
    It will impart shock. Remember your last good splinter you got under your
    thumb nail? Or a nickel size piece wood splitting metal wedge shot off by your
    sledge hammer & up your left arm cutting an Artery. :eek: Shocked me but
    I drove my 3 on the tree Chevy PU all the way to Hospital. A lived to tell it all. :happy:
  17. BCD 45

    BCD 45 Well-Known Member

    Feb 13, 2019
    Scientific evidence of Hydrostatic Shock. Very long but very interesting. It kind of confirms what I've been told, that it only happens in pistol cartridges with 550 ft lbs of energy or more.

    From big game hunting experience, I know for fact, that smaller super velocity bullets kills cleaner & more efficiently than slower bigger projectiles.

    Here's a link if you care to view it:

    Lineman1982 likes this.
  18. Wake27

    Wake27 Active Member

    Oct 16, 2017
    Dude, I can barely understand what you’re even writing.

    Slow .45 is most likely to stop an attacker without killing them but 357 is most likely to kill? That sounds like a poorly comprehended summary of a study or just standard gun store bullshit.

    And “snipers” you’ve met are ok with shooting someone in the foot because that’s the only part that’s exposed huh? That’s a completely different scenario but I’m still curious how many of these “snipers” you’ve met and what their qualifications are. I was zeroing my long gun yesterday and because I have an LPVO on it and was using a bipod, I overheard some guy call me a sniper. Magnification on a rifle doesn’t make qualify someone as a sniper.

    And I think your final point was about some type of arm injury that caused you to go into shock? I’m not sure what you’re even arguing here because from what I could understand, it “shocked” you but you still drove to the hospital. Which means that even with some type of significant bleed, you were able to function relatively close to normal. Not sure how that does anything other than contradict your argument that shock is a show stopper.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Mike A likes this.
  19. Mike A

    Mike A Well-Known Member Supporting Addict

    Mar 19, 2017
    LOL. :laugh: Age is not wisdom BS the boppers used to say. :smurggrin: Boy were they wrong :shameful:.

    Read more guess less.
  20. Old Sea Dragon

    Old Sea Dragon Well-Known Member

    Feb 10, 2018
    People used to tout the Taylor Knockout formula for assessing the lethality of loads. It was skewed towards velocity and would predict a 22-250 was more lethal than the 45-70. Ridiculous. If you want to be sure you better have a balance of both(did someone say 10mm?)
    Dub likes this.

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