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Chief Steward of Man Law
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Discussion Starter #1
So.... Recently I admitted to myself that I'm getting old and don't see as well as I used to. In fact I don't see as well as I did just a few years ago. I put a J-Point on my .38 Super when I built it, but driving a truck OTR for a living means I have no place to set up for reloading so I don't get to shoot it very often. The .45s get shot a LOT. But after 4 different pairs of shooting glasses I was still having trouble with sights out of focus and target out of focus.

So I finally broke down and went optical on Ugly Betty. Ordered a Vortex Venom and then waited weeks trying to get a Venom to Novak adapter. Finally got one with some help from EGW, who was out of stock and looking at 3-4 weeks before they would have more, but gave me a few other places that they had recently shipped them to. Got the mount in the mail the day Mid West Shooting Center closed for the kornteen. (yes, I know how it's spelled) Mid West opened the range by appointment for members only yesterday and I set up an appointment for today at noon to test the new glasses on Ugly Betty.

This was sighting it in at 50' with 5 shot groups off a rest. Note they are nice, tight groups. Ugly Betty has ALWAYS been way more accurate than I am.



Got it all centered up, turned the target around and put on some 3" stick-ons, then back out to 50' to try it free hand.

Ummmm... Note the groups are not so tight. The upper three were done in multiple 5 shot groups. The bottom one got about 30 rounds through the Legacy Twin with Bomar BMCS.



You'll notice that optical was not considerably better than what I did with Iron sights. Now, I also know I was having some trouble keeping the dot in view as, with the adapter plate, it sits much higher than the old Novak and I'm going to have to get used to that. My index tries to override my sight picture and I find myself fighting the index to get the dot on target. Still I thought I was going to do SOOO much better on optical.

Just have to practice more I guess. So more range time for me. :D
 

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الواحد
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While I applaud you for adapting your system and self reflection I just wanted to point out:
You’re shooting at around 15yds
Your groups are about the size of an adult human heart
You have pretty good consistency

IMO while there’s room for improvement and work, you are doing very well. Keep it up and practice with purpose! I recommend some dot drills and dot torture to get use to the changes and some trigger time.
 

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Other than index the major hurtle is learning target focus vs front sight focus.
you'll get it
 
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Deo Volente
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Maybe it is time to see an optometrist? You sure don't want to get surprised at your next DOT physical do you?

I am getting older and my reading eyesight requires drug store cheaters, but I have to admit that I should see an optometrist just to check on the cataracts the doctor spotted years ago! If I am going to the optometrist then I will probably do it right before I renew my drivers license so I can renew on line.
 

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Chief Steward of Man Law
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Discussion Starter #6
Maybe it is time to see an optometrist? You sure don't want to get surprised at your next DOT physical do you?
I see an optometrist twice a year. I wear tri-focals. So the shooting glasses we've been working on are medium focus in the right lens and long focus in the left. But it's a compromise that is not working well for me.

As for DoT, my vision has been the least of my worries. My high blood pressure, pre-diabetes and sleep apnea have been their issue with me. Had surgery on my throat, no more sleep apnea problem from the DoT. Changed my diet a little and got on a day trip dedicated lane and my blood sugar is back to normal. And as long as I can shoot at least once a week, my BP stays down.
 
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Caspian said......"You'll notice that optical was not considerably better than what I did with Iron sights. Now, I also know I was having some trouble keeping the dot in view as, with the adapter plate, it sits much higher than the old Novak and I'm going to have to get used to that. My index tries to override my sight picture and I find myself fighting the index to get the dot on target. Still I thought I was going to do SOOO much better on optical."
My response is......
This is just my perspective so don't everyone get crazy.........You will continue to have problems with acquiring the Dot if you leave your Dot Sight mounted the way it is. In the beginning (when learning to shoot with a dot sight) I BELIEVE you need co witness irons to be successful. The secret to learning the dot is based on your Natural Point of Aim (NPA).
You have trained for years (hopefully) to acquire your iron sights quickly by presenting the pistol the same way every time and having your sights line up naturally upon that presentation. If you continue that same presentation and NPA you will see the Dot every time "IF" the Red Dot aligns with your irons. That's why I say you need the back up irons to initially learn to use the Dot Sights, and they need to co-witness. JMHO....

TR
 

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Deo Volente
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I see an optometrist twice a year. I wear tri-focals. So the shooting glasses we've been working on are medium focus in the right lens and long focus in the left. But it's a compromise that is not working well for me.

As for DoT, my vision has been the least of my worries. My high blood pressure, pre-diabetes and sleep apnea have been their issue with me. Had surgery on my throat, no more sleep apnea problem from the DoT. Changed my diet a little and got on a day trip dedicated lane and my blood sugar is back to normal. And as long as I can shoot at least once a week, my BP stays down.
Good deal on the BP, apnea and sugar! The eyesight problems must be vexing! Prayers for ya!
 

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Chief Steward of Man Law
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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Other than index the major hurtle is learning target focus vs front sight focus.
you'll get it
Actually, this is what was giving me fits. I have always shot mostly index and the sights were simply a confirmation. My eyes lock onto the target and the sights come to my eyes. A quick shift of focus to confirm alignment with the target as I squeeze the trigger. Now the target and sight are on the same focal plane but my arms want to hold the gun higher based on my normal index with iron sights. So now the dot is out of the window on the low side and I need to constantly bring the dot up, while my arms are telling my brain, "No, that's not where I'm supposed to be". So I'm constantly trying to override my normal index which is trying to override my eyes.
 
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Chief Steward of Man Law
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Discussion Starter #10
Just to give you all an idea of how I was shooting with iron sights, this was the target I shot for my CCW 3 yrs ago. 15 and 25 feet, 60 shots, 10 each, two hands, strong hand only and weak hand only.



Shot with this pistol.

 

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Caspian:
I may have taken too long to write my post and edit it.........please see above post for my point addressing your second post.

TR
 

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Chief Steward of Man Law
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Discussion Starter #12
Caspian:
I may have taken too long to write my post and edit it.........please see above post for my point addressing your second post.

TR
I understand what you're getting at but in this situation, it's just not possible. I would have to have the slide welded up and recut to mount the Venom directly on the slide in order to have co-witness iron sights. Not gonna do that. I could put a higher front sight post on as the Venom has a notch for that but that doesn't really solve my arms wanting to hold the gun higher.

This isn't really a major issue. I'll get used to it pretty quick. Was mainly just disappointed that it wasn't better right out of the gate. But, then, I have always held myself to very high standards. Disappointing when I don't meet my own expectations at first but much more satisfying when it all comes together. :)
 
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