close

Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

AR Pistols?

Discussion in 'Autoloaders' started by SkDmRkLcY, Sep 15, 2011.

  1. SkDmRkLcY

    SkDmRkLcY Active Member

    Aug 17, 2011
    Thoughts?

    I have an urge to build one to go SBR at some point.

    I do not even own a normal AR at this point.
     
  2. Metaloy

    Metaloy Active Member

    712
    Sep 8, 2011
    I think the consensus is they are very unreliable due to the very short gas system. But they look cool!!
     

  3. Hatter

    Hatter Makes **** Move

    252
    Aug 23, 2011
    what are you thinking for barrel length? 10.5 is about the shortest you can go before you get into reliability and severe performance issues (velocity and tumble). There are some 7.5 and 9" setups but personally I like (and have) the 10.5 setup.

    ETA: After seeing the post above I would agree that the consensus applies to those shorter than 10.5. I run a Rainier UM 10.5 barrel with carbine gas system and Spikes T2 buffer. I've never had any reliability issues and its got great accuracy out to 100 yards. Keep in mind the Rainier UM has a .223 Wylde chamber - not 5.56 or 223 Rem.

    You basically build it as a normal AR but use the pistol buffer tube and the corresponding gas system. Would you be starting from a stripped lower and upper?
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2011
  4. Dumbell2

    Dumbell2 Member

    126
    Sep 7, 2011
    Not a true ar, but I want a KelTec plr 16.
     
  5. SkDmRkLcY

    SkDmRkLcY Active Member

    Aug 17, 2011
    I would do a build with a stripped lower and a complete upper.

    I like the look of the 7.5" but if I plan to SBR it I will go with a 10 or 10.3.
     
  6. Hatter

    Hatter Makes **** Move

    252
    Aug 23, 2011
    That's how I started as well. Now I'm up to complete builds... say goodbye to your wallet, you're entering the land of legos for men.

    You can build the pistol with any length barrel. You wont be able to attach a stock until you have received your tax stamp from your friends at BATFE. This will be a Form 1 since you're technically the builder (the guy who puts the short upper on an SBR lower or stock on a pistol). You'll also need to get the lower engraved with your name and location to be within BATFE guidelines.

    You will have a very very large amount of options for lowers, lower parts kits, triggers, controls, grips etc. Typically the weapon and controls are pretty straight forward but there are countless choices. Usually the selection of parts can be overwhelming but is driven by your intended use. Typically SBR's fall into the home defense or travel gun and some tactical use. If you're new to AR's and need a basic plinking / fun gun I'd recommend keeping it simple and learning the platform before you go overboard and end up with a massive tactical firearm that is completely unnecessary.
     
  7. knedrgr

    knedrgr Low capacity, low tech...

    Aug 15, 2011
    Looks fun. But it's on the bottom of my list.

    Trevor, don't know if you know this or not, but if you go pistol, don't put a VFG on there without a tax stamp. Adding the VFG will make it a AWO category, and needs a stamp. But if you have the SBR stamp, then it's OK.
     
  8. SkDmRkLcY

    SkDmRkLcY Active Member

    Aug 17, 2011
    Yeah it seems you can put the magpul vfg like thing on it but not a real one.

    I should really build a 16" first... but a shorter one would be more practical for actual use as a HD weapon.

    We shall see I may try and get a part here and there for it and work as I go for right now.
     
  9. Hatter

    Hatter Makes **** Move

    252
    Aug 23, 2011
    You lost me on this... do you mean the Magpul AFG? I love the AFG's on my AR's. The issue with putting anything, whether it be an AFG or VFG is that it implies two handed use. Once you take a pistol and imply two handed use the pistol becomes "AOW" (Any Other Weapon) and would then require the ATF stamp. Typically a standard built M4 16" is the way people start and move from there.
     
  10. SkDmRkLcY

    SkDmRkLcY Active Member

    Aug 17, 2011
    It seems that several people have been able to send a letter to the ATF and get approval on the AFG as it is not a traditional VFG. Not saying I would do it without also getting said letter... but a lot have.

    I personally never liked them either way, call me a traditionalist in that since.
     
  11. SkDmRkLcY

    SkDmRkLcY Active Member

    Aug 17, 2011
  12. bac1023

    bac1023 1911 Collector Moderator

    Aug 15, 2011
    They're interesting, but just not for me.

    I wouldn't mind a standard AR at some point.
     
  13. Kokopelli

    Kokopelli Schütze

    Aug 17, 2011
    Well that's good to know.. Thanks for posting the link...
     
  14. Hatter

    Hatter Makes **** Move

    252
    Aug 23, 2011
    that's strange information and is contrary to the ATF website http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/firearms-technology.html#vertical-fore-grip

    "ATF has long held that by installing a vertical fore grip on a handgun, the handgun is no longer designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand. Therefore, if individuals install a vertical fore grip on a handgun, they are “making” a firearm requiring registration with ATF’s NFA Branch."

    The AFG/VFG is a personal preference. I never could get used to grabbing a vertical grip with my left hand. The rifles I've used that have had VFG's were much easier to manipulate when I would grab the handguard and use the VFG as a hand stop for my lower two fingers. Since this is how I've used VFG's the AFG was a very comfortable transition for me.
     
  15. Bender

    Bender Supporting Addict Supporting Addict

    Aug 15, 2011
    A MagPul AGF on a "pistol" configured AR will get you in hot water VERY quick!
    By the regulation, it's STILL a fore grip.
     
  16. IraG2362

    IraG2362 Supporting Addict Supporting Addict

    807
    Sep 3, 2011
    the best way I have found to fire an AR pistol is to grip the magwell while using a sling(single point) when you pull forward against the sling , it gives reasonable amount of stability to shoot accurately IMO.
     
  17. knedrgr

    knedrgr Low capacity, low tech...

    Aug 15, 2011
    Very interesting read.
     
  18. SkDmRkLcY

    SkDmRkLcY Active Member

    Aug 17, 2011
    For whatever reason they have decided that it is not a VFG, which is stupid... but not shocking.. all the AR rules are stupid.

    You can find other letters and such giving the same okay if you are devoted. Like I said I personally just do not like them at all.
     
  19. Bender

    Bender Supporting Addict Supporting Addict

    Aug 15, 2011
    It's politics,.......
     
  20. Nakanokalronin

    Nakanokalronin Active Member

    200
    Aug 17, 2011
    I have 3 normal ARs, a retro, a KISS A3 flat top and my original with an Aimpoint M4s and many other acessories. I also own a 7.5" AR pistol that hasn't given me a problem yet with any 55gr or 62gr ammo. Ammo mainly consists of Federal Lake City ammo but even Wolf does the job. I bought the upper from R Guns, the lower from DSA and all the other parts where bought at random locations. Practical application...fun! I have no doubt it would do its job as a defensive firearm but I had no intention to use it in such a manner nor would I suggest it for such a use. Since this picture, I updated the flash hider to the one I used to have on my PLR-16. I completely forgot the name of it but it directs all the flash out front.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2011
Verification:
Draft saved Draft deleted