[Kevin Rohrer]

There is nothing wrong w/ a 10mm in a quality 1911. Those two are getting older and may not enjoy the recoil.

 

[bmcgilvray]

I like 10mm, especially in the 1911 so am keeping mine.

 

[yellisprotector]

I guess this was all a waste!

 

[Frank Black]

There is nothing wrong w/ a 10mm in a quality 1911. Those two are getting older and may not enjoy the recoil.

Especially coming from two old Fuddley-farts who carry and shoot a 9-minimeter 99.9% of the time.

 

[pistolwretch]

I've always believed that the 45acp offers more than adequate power with superior control.
The ability to deliver several very fast hits trumps the more powerful cartridges.

 

[Jimhoag]

They don't like 10mm because they can't shoot it. They destroyed their wrists shooting ungodly amount of factory 45 ball and 9x23. Even Vickers switched to 9mm from shoulder issues. No telling how many rounds Bill and Ken have shot. When I was competing in IPSC the power factor for major was 180. I shot a 200gr lswc at 920 to make sure I was at major level. After 50,000 rounds in matches and practice I started having pain in right wrist. X rays showed stress cracks in wrist bones. I had to shoot 38 specials out of a 4" python. After a few months I went back to 45 and hid the pain
.

 

[UBOATDOC]

I found it interesting that Hackathorn brought up Larry Vickers a couple times. Was this before the trial or after?

 

[bac1023]

I never understood sheep that worry about what others like in order to justify their purchases. But and use what you enjoy.

I personally don’t like 10mm 1911’s, but if I did, I wouldn’t give a damn how others felt about it.

 

[Old Sea Dragon]

I think Ken and Bill in previous videos have said that they are mostly carrying 9mm so it would not surprise me that neither has room in their hearts for the 40/10mm. According to them the 10mm is problematic and listening to the logic moves my BS meter pretty close to the peg. I have two Kimbers and most recently a NHC Commander bought here from a fellow addict. Not one functional issue from any of them. Here is the first 5 shot group on paper from the NHC, fired offhand from 25yds.

View attachment 1629856

My only complaint with the 10mm is the long walk to find the brass.

You can find it? When I had a Delta it flung brass 30 feet into tall grass, half of it is still in there, waiting for an archeologist to discover it. While i owned my Delta i put about 2500 rounds through it without any problems.

 

[1776_duck]

Oh, the 10mm... a cartridge where everyone involved with its development wanted a .45 ACP, but couldn't pursue .45 ACP because of the Beretta M9.

Ken and I have had several private conversations about 10mm where there was certainly no advertisement at play as suggested here. His and Bill's feelings towards 10mm are honestly toned down in that video. While I certainly advocate for the Stone Cold Steve Austin way of thinking ("I do what I want"), for people on this thread to act like Bill and Ken don't know what they're talking about or are just trying to sell people on something is pretty lame.

The issue with the cartridge is that, historically, it is the least reliable of the "major" 1911 cartridges. While its overall length is longer than 9mm, its short bullet is the problem. No one, shooter or smith, seems to agree with how the guns should be set up concerning the barrel (supported ramp v. traditional) and the excessive pressures of the (real load) 10mm are notorious for causing excessive long-term wear. Can you get a 10mm 1911 to run? Yes, but why would you want to when .45 ACP exists?

EVERY serious gun guy I have ever met and some of the best pistol smiths in the world all have one thing in common- a disdain for 10mm. I have a 10mm Springfield being built at NHC for shits and giggles and because SA gave me the gun a long time ago. Past that, I do not have much interest in a 10mm handgun.

If you have good results with 10mm, great! Carry it, train with it, and enjoy it.

 

[ShootinInNC]

EVERY serious gun guy I have ever met and some of the best pistol smiths in the world all have one thing in common- a disdain for 10mm. I have a 10mm Springfield being built at NHC for shits and giggles and because SA gave me the gun a long time ago. Past that, I do not have much interest in a 10mm handgun.

If you have good results with 10mm, great! Carry it, train with it, and enjoy it.

Why the disdain? I feel like, given the weight of the 1911, it’s best modern practical use is as a tamer of a hot round.

The love for full size 1911s in 9mm confounds me a bit. They weigh so much more and have less capacity than the plethora of gross plastic guns out there but tend to require more maintenance, they just don’t serve a practical purpose in my opinion. A 1911 in a hot caliber makes perfect practical sense. I wish 45 super was more popular though, that would really be where it’s at.

Also I love revolvers o maybe I should shut up about practical things…

 

[Old Sea Dragon]

Oh, the 10mm... a cartridge where everyone involved with its development wanted a .45 ACP, but couldn't pursue .45 ACP because of the Beretta M9.

Ken and I have had several private conversations about 10mm where there was certainly no advertisement at play as suggested here. His and Bill's feelings towards 10mm are honestly toned down in that video. While I certainly advocate for the Stone Cold Steve Austin way of thinking ("I do what I want"), for people on this thread to act like Bill and Ken don't know what they're talking about or are just trying to sell people on something is pretty lame.

The issue with the cartridge is that, historically, it is the least reliable of the "major" 1911 cartridges. While its overall length is longer than 9mm, its short bullet is the problem. No one, shooter or smith, seems to agree with how the guns should be set up concerning the barrel (supported ramp v. traditional) and the excessive pressures of the (real load) 10mm are notorious for causing excessive long-term wear. Can you get a 10mm 1911 to run? Yes, but why would you want to when .45 ACP exists?

EVERY serious gun guy I have ever met and some of the best pistol smiths in the world all have one thing in common- a disdain for 10mm. I have a 10mm Springfield being built at NHC for shits and giggles and because SA gave me the gun a long time ago. Past that, I do not have much interest in a 10mm handgun.

If you have good results with 10mm, great! Carry it, train with it, and enjoy it.

Flatter trajectory and deeper penetration make it a better choice for outdoors. I sold mine simply because I always use revolvers in the great outdoors. Rob has commented on the issues regarding whether you build it for full pressure loads or the weeny loads from the big names. I always thought ACW should just build them the way Rob thought best and communicate explicitly to their customers what range of ammo it was built for.

 

[bladeandbarrel]

Oh, the 10mm... a cartridge where everyone involved with its development wanted a .45 ACP, but couldn't pursue .45 ACP because of the Beretta M9.

Ken and I have had several private conversations about 10mm where there was certainly no advertisement at play as suggested here. His and Bill's feelings towards 10mm are honestly toned down in that video. While I certainly advocate for the Stone Cold Steve Austin way of thinking ("I do what I want"), for people on this thread to act like Bill and Ken don't know what they're talking about or are just trying to sell people on something is pretty lame.

The issue with the cartridge is that, historically, it is the least reliable of the "major" 1911 cartridges. While its overall length is longer than 9mm, its short bullet is the problem. No one, shooter or smith, seems to agree with how the guns should be set up concerning the barrel (supported ramp v. traditional) and the excessive pressures of the (real load) 10mm are notorious for causing excessive long-term wear. Can you get a 10mm 1911 to run? Yes, but why would you want to when .45 ACP exists?

EVERY serious gun guy I have ever met and some of the best pistol smiths in the world all have one thing in common- a disdain for 10mm. I have a 10mm Springfield being built at NHC for shits and giggles and because SA gave me the gun a long time ago. Past that, I do not have much interest in a 10mm handgun.

If you have good results with 10mm, great! Carry it, train with it, and enjoy it.

10000000% accurate in every respect.

The 10mm is notorious for feeding issues in a 1911, especially the hotter the load. The 1911 was designed to run a power factor of less than 200. To control slide velocity at a 10% increase over that, you resort to things like square firing pin stops, heavy hammer springs, heavy barrels/recoil springs etc etc etc.

The 10mm case is 2mm longer than .45 ACP case which means the bullets have to be seated quite deep with an ogive similar to ball ammo to get reliable feeding.


I have a few fairly reliable 10mm's but they came at the expense of a lot of tinkering around with ammo, loads, magazines and feed ramps. Your feedramp needs to be dead nuts on and by the time it is properly throated, you lose a lot of case support.

I love 10mm. I love the catridge. I have several guns I love shooting in that caliber.

I carry a .45 or 9mm.


My favorite 10mm

 

[Frank Black]

Flatter trajectory and deeper penetration make it a better choice for outdoors. I sold mine simply because I always use revolvers in the great outdoors. Rob has commented on the issues regarding whether you build it for full pressure loads or the weeny loads from the big names. I always thought ACW should just build them the way Rob thought best and communicate explicitly to their customers what range of ammo it was built for.

This for sure.

For shooting copious amounts of REAL 10mm out of a 5” 1911, you can either have a box-stock gun set-up and tuned properly for that level of ammo - preferably by a 10mm-knowledgeable ‘smith who knows what he’s doing (in my case, Vic Tibbets) - or have a custom Best-Meter gun built from scratch to run only the high-performance ammo and handloads.

Tibbets Classic Customs DE

 

[Vynz]

Oh, the 10mm... a cartridge where everyone involved with its development wanted a .45 ACP, but couldn't pursue .45 ACP because of the Beretta M9.

Ken and I have had several private conversations about 10mm where there was certainly no advertisement at play as suggested here. His and Bill's feelings towards 10mm are honestly toned down in that video. While I certainly advocate for the Stone Cold Steve Austin way of thinking ("I do what I want"), for people on this thread to act like Bill and Ken don't know what they're talking about or are just trying to sell people on something is pretty lame.

The issue with the cartridge is that, historically, it is the least reliable of the "major" 1911 cartridges. While its overall length is longer than 9mm, its short bullet is the problem. No one, shooter or smith, seems to agree with how the guns should be set up concerning the barrel (supported ramp v. traditional) and the excessive pressures of the (real load) 10mm are notorious for causing excessive long-term wear. Can you get a 10mm 1911 to run? Yes, but why would you want to when .45 ACP exists?

EVERY serious gun guy I have ever met and some of the best pistol smiths in the world all have one thing in common- a disdain for 10mm. I have a 10mm Springfield being built at NHC for shits and giggles and because SA gave me the gun a long time ago. Past that, I do not have much interest in a 10mm handgun.

If you have good results with 10mm, great! Carry it, train with it, and enjoy it.

Thanks for the clarification and extra context from off-production conversations.

 

[wrmiller]

I don't practice with the full power loads that I use for carry and SD. And I don't bother listening to paid talking heads either. Seems simple enough.

 

[pscipio03]

Brought to you by the same two old muppets in the balcony that hate red dot sights on pistols and stopped carrying 45's years ago.
Eventually someone needs to put them both on an ice flow Inuit style. All the great things they have brought to the 1911 community are starting to get seriously sullied by their grumpy, frumpy Fudd'ness.

 

[Old Sea Dragon]

Even the most knowledgeable of people are wrong occasionally.

 

[1776_duck]

Brought to you by the same two old muppets in the balcony that hate red dot sights on pistols and stopped carrying 45's years ago.
Eventually someone needs to put them both on an ice flow Inuit style. All the great things they have brought to the 1911 community are starting to get seriously sullied by their grumpy, frumpy Fudd'ness.

They do not hate red dot sights. Hack shoots RDOs all the time. In fact, he MADE me shoot his Glock w/ ACRO and Afterburner Comp... ew.

People believe that RDOs immediately make them shoot better. Hack just says that RDOs require training.

Hack smokes people using dots on the regular at his Saturday Study Groups.

 

[1776_duck]

10000000% accurate in every respect.

The 10mm is notorious for feeding issues in a 1911, especially the hotter the load. The 1911 was designed to run a power factor of less than 200. To control slide velocity at a 10% increase over that, you resort to things like square firing pin stops, heavy hammer springs, heavy barrels/recoil springs etc etc etc.

The 10mm case is 2mm longer than .45 ACP case which means the bullets have to be seated quite deep with an ogive similar to ball ammo to get reliable feeding.


I have a few fairly reliable 10mm's but they came at the expense of a lot of tinkering around with ammo, loads, magazines and feed ramps. Your feedramp needs to be dead nuts on and by the time it is properly throated, you lose a lot of case support.

I love 10mm. I love the catridge. I have several guns I love shooting in that caliber.

I carry a .45 or 9mm.


My favorite 10mm

View attachment 1630093

Nail on the head. It's a circus act getting a 10mm to run like a .45 ACP- but cool when you can. That's a beautiful pistol!