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Discussion Starter #1
Any consensus ...on the barrel life for a well made match grade barrel....from Wilson, Guncrafter, etc....in terms of round count ..../ shooting all RN FMJ ammo... / so the gun will still hold its 1" group at 25 yds...

Especially curious from experienced gunsmiths...on what they have seen...
 

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Custom Pistolsmith
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I have been using Kart barrels almost exclusively for the past 12 years for a good reason. When properly fit they just work. Bore condition, in my experience, depends on the type of bullets shot. I've seen .45 barrels shot strictly with lead got 250k without any real wear. I've also seen 9mm/.38super barrels with as little as 45k jacketed barrels with an inch of erosion. It also seems to depend to some degree on powder used. Some powders seem to cause more erosion than others.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I shoot Montana Gold jacketed bullets exclusively thru my guns... and Hodgdon TiteGroup which is a fairly fast powder.../ you think that has any impact...good or bad...

Do mfg's like Wilson, GunCrafter, etc ....warrant the barrels ...or if they are shot out - the customer has to pay to replace.. ??
 

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Titegroup is known as a "hot" powder, or more so than most.
I use it as well due to economy and ACCURACY in my 9mm loads. I see signs of leade erosion at 25K rds. through one of the barrels (all are Kart).
I shoot Zero JHP's exclusively.
I expect to replace barrels sooner than if I were running 231/n320/WSF as example.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Ok guys, thanks for the input.

Yes, I understand Titegroup is #15 on powder burn rate chart ....but it drops very consistently, has a wide application for a number of calibers and gives me consistent performance from 9mm to .44 mag / so I use a lot of it .....& I'll keep using it.
 

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I put together 32#’s when the Great Satan was in office.
I’ll be using it for a while too.
 

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I have been using Kart barrels almost exclusively for the past 12 years for a good reason. When properly fit they just work. Bore condition, in my experience, depends on the type of bullets shot. I've seen .45 barrels shot strictly with lead got 250k without any real wear. I've also seen 9mm/.38super barrels with as little as 45k jacketed barrels with an inch of erosion. It also seems to depend to some degree on powder used. Some powders seem to cause more erosion than others.
Joe I'm curious how much more wear you see in 38 Super barrels VS 9mm barrels. Just purchased a Super and I realize the velocity and pressure are higher opposed to the 9mm. I believe Les Baer uses Kart barrels in his builds. Does this make a significant difference?
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Greedfox, Its not the $500 to replace the barrel that was the issue / I can afford to replace it ...and shoot the gun as much as I want... / ... you misinterpreted my question.

what I am trying to understand is the concept of what is a normal life to a barrel. I wasn't trying to evaluate the life of a barrel...to support the concept of shooting more .45acp vs 9mm.

In this case, I actually made my decision on the barrel last Tuesday ...based on the recommendation of the gunsmith..to install the current barrel, take it to test fire ( he expected my barrel to fail miserably -- and not hold a solid group ) ...but from a benchrest at 15 yds the current barrel shot a 3/8" group ( 5 shots )....so I elected to keep the barrel in the gun...and will evaluate it semi-annually from here on out ...until it won't perform.
 

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The 9mm rounds wear more on the barrel due to higher pressures, velocity, and fractional differences in jacket surface tension. That said, it would account to only a few hundred less rounds out of 300k+, depending on what you consider a worn barrel...

Realistically, if your worried about the price of barrel replacement over the kind of round counts Necessary, you can't afford to shoot that many bullets...

Also, 1k rounds of 45 is no less than $200 more than 1k rounds of 9mm... doing a little math, you could literally buy 5-7 whole new guns for the price difference in the 200k rounds of 9 and 45 it would take to damage a single barrel under regular use...


I think your asking the wrong question, you should ask whether or not you can afford bullets at all if a few hundred bucks matters to you....
$200 more per 1k rounds is a much larger price difference that is available.

Either way, if cabbage is the deciding factor 9 is the way to go imho.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Wilson combat's gunsmiths tests all of their guns at 15 yds...and most of their guns carry a 1" group accuracy guarantee at 25 yds. Their experience and expertise is good enough for me.

My 14 yr old Wilson, Protector model, in 9mm -- was there for warranty work.....and I was discussing with them on whether to replace the barrel.

I'm happy to keep the barrel since its still very accurate....but the cost of replacing it was never the issue / I was trying to understand the life of a handgun barrel.

I was not talking about a milspec gun or just dropping a barrel in .../ I was talking about match grade barrels with hand fit bushings in high end semi-custom 1911's....
I have no interest in shooting my handguns at 100 yds...
 

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1911 Pistol Smith
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I'd b sol if I had to accuracy fire my builds at 100 yards, heck I can't even see that far. 25 yards is the furthest distance and normally it's 15 yards. I read reviews and statements all the time of people trying to prove the Les Baer 1.5" guarantee and there are very few to none who actually prove.. That is why when I hear people like my neighbor talk about hitting a milk jug at 200 yards with an RIA 7 out of 8 shots, I am smiling and under my breath saying BS...
 

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The Tinker
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I am smiling and under my breath saying BS...
After witnessing some of the comments here of late, I'm right there with you. ;)

But fortunately there are enough good people here to make visiting this site worthwhile. :)
 

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1911 Pistol Smith
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After witnessing some of the comments here of late, I'm right there with you. ;)

But fortunately there are enough good people here to make visiting this site worthwhile. :)
Yes sir, you sure got that right I have and continue to meet some of the best people ever from this forum. And was fortunate enough a few weeks ago to meet a few more in person and to have the privilege to meet their families, close friends, pets etc.. it still remains one of the highlights of my day to come in here and talk to some of the best people who exist in this world..
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Radians ... ??? ...

I just want to see that target with 5 shots .... in a 5" group at 100 yds ( let's say ...draw & fire 5 rounds inside of 10 sec with open sights ..)...

I know I can't do it with either of the best guns I own...but I'd like to see someone do it. ( I can't see clearly at 100 yds either...with these 68 yr old eyes...)...

Both of these guns have a guarantee by Wilson of a 1" group at 25 yds...( black armor tuff is a CQB in .45acp / the all stainless is a 9mm Protector...)...

20170825_143534.jpg
 

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The Tinker
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If someone is shooting at me from 100+ yds away and all I have is a pistol I am going to disengage as quickly and quietly as possible. :eek:

Now if I have my battle rifle handy that's a different story.
 

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Radians ... ??? ...

I just want to see that target with 5 shots .... in a 5" group at 100 yds ( let's say ...draw & fire 5 rounds inside of 10 sec with open sights ..)...

I know I can't do it with either of the best guns I own...but I'd like to see someone do it. ( I can't see clearly at 100 yds either...with these 68 yr old eyes...)...

Both of these guns have a guarantee by Wilson of a 1" group at 25 yds...( black armor tuff is a CQB in .45acp / the all stainless is a 9mm Protector...)...

View attachment 250971
“I test pistols at 100yrds so I can actually measure the radians in my guns inaccuracy, shouldered weapons go out 300yrds. Not that any .45acp can achieve a 1" group at 100yrds, I count a gun as trash if it shoots slower than 5 minutes... (5moa at 100yrds is a 5" circle)”

Yep. Radians. It’s the new way of measuring if you gun can shoot “slower “ than 5 minutes

I’m thinking there is some confusion in the units here....

Where’s the popcorn? And the gun lube?
 

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Custom Pistolsmith
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Just got back from the 2019 Shooters Symposium down in Texas. We shot a LOT of steel at 100 yards with the new Night Fighter pistol. It was pretty amazing to watch some of the top tactical trainers in the world ringing that 100 yard half silhouette with impunity with the diminutive 9mm from a 5" barrel pistol.
 
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