[TangoWhiskeyFoxtrot]

[EdIt] More about what I'm trying to do and why I'm asking this here. Ideas on "low-impact" shooting activities, good customer experience, etc. all welcome. [/Edit]

All things being equal, the outdoor shooting experience always exceeds the indoor experience. But all things aren't equal. Sometimes people shoot indoors. Sometimes people build facilities for shooting indoors.

If you shoot indoors, with your long gun, I'm interested in what you have done, seen, heard or thought about that would make you want to go to an indoor facility. Be long-gun specific - not weather, proximity, etc. Also assume the facility will have modern ventilation/hygiene and noise control. The limitation is that the facility is small, definitely no 100-yd lanes. 50-yd and under only. Not many at 50-yards - 3, maybe 4 max. There would be a small complement of (probably 8) conventional 15- or 25-yard lanes

You can talk about activities (both those that work and those that don't), target systems, technology, etc.

Thanks.

[Edit 2] I've also done a little homework on this topic. I attended the 3-day NRA Range Development & Operations Conference back in Sept, have talked with probably a half-dozen range owners/operators, Texas Dept of Parks and Wildlife, acoustics, lead mitigation, range equipment and ventilation vendors, as well as an engineer, a lawyer and a city code guy. I do not know everything, but I'm past the zero starting line. [/Edit 2]

 

[5pt56]

Because you said long gun specific and not weather related, I have 0 reason to go to an indoor range with a rifle, especially with the lane limitations presented.

The ONLY reason I would even think about going would be to have a "constant" environment for a solid BZO with a PCC or AR.

I'm interested to see the responses FWIW...

If you change the criteria, then I can offer more information that is of value.

 

[TangoWhiskeyFoxtrot]

The constraints are provided because that's what they are. Changing them as a theoretical exercise is of no value. The goal is to see if anyone has ideas within them. Perhaps there are none. That will be good to know.

 

[Hunt5877]

Never seen steel targets at indoor ranges, that might make me use one even at shorter ranges for pcc use or sbr. Some sort of reactive target would make for a more exciting outing to an indoor range.

 

[5pt56]

The constraints are provided because that's what they are. Changing them as a theoretical exercise is of no value. The goal is to see if anyone has ideas within them. Perhaps there are none. That will be good to know.

I understand that. All I was saying is IF the constraints are changed (IE, go build a better more usable indoor range) then i could provide more value. I get it.

 

[Babboonbobo]

There is a range I shoot at that has rifle specific lanes out to 50 yds, crumbled rubber back stop with full modern electronic controls very nice, only wish they had a monitor system to see your actual shots at that distance. Being able to see hits on a monitor would be beneficial for me as an option because I also shoot my pistols at that distance “just because”
One other thing, add some sort of rack to put long guns in on each lane and think of stands for magazines and the larger ammo that is used.
These are just my thoughts.

 

[Legion489]

One guy had a warehouse and when measured, it was over 100 yards on the inside (about 110 yards). Big deal you say? Well how about testing .22 LR ammo for accuracy with out wind, mirage, sub-zero, dust, shadows, etc.

 

[jakebrake]

wax bullets

 

[mtodd]

You don't specify what kind of shooting you are interested in but have you given 10m air rifles any consideration? I shoot 10m air pistols in the garage with no problems. Simple back stop no fumes of hearing protection needed

 

[DRYHUMOR]

Warehouse or mfg plant with a basement or sub level. Already in an industrial area so noise shouldn’t matter. Duct down clean air behind the firing line, duct up at the berm. AR 500 under loose berm material triple angle change to limit ricochet.

I’ve been in basements you could shoot about 100yds. All concrete.

 

[pscipio03]

http://www.shootingrangeindustries.com/modular-shooting-solutions/

Long story short, a deal has been made with my wife that if I have to move back to the frozen tundra of Michigan, I get an indoor range. It's not a small investment, but the cost of living in Kalamazoo is so diametrically different than in Scottsdale, that we would still spend less.
The HVAC is your biggest expense. To keep it to a safe level, you're looking at $30k+ for a two-lane 7 yd range. You have to have something that sucks the air downrange, not something that blows the air downrange. Because of that, there's a significant cost associated.
For a rifle rated range, they apply Level III armor.
I'm going to estimate that for what you want, in a 2 lane range at 25 yards, that's rifle ready, with construction and transportation (I figured transpo for mine would be around $8,500), you're going to be looking at $200k or so. Just a round figure and that all depends on how close you are to Las Vegas- where they are made.

 

[Slapshot]

I don’t shoot long guns often but when I do it outside but the guy next to me at the indoor range uses it for mag dumps with his AR every frickin’ time I go.

 

[TangoWhiskeyFoxtrot]

Ok, thanks guys. I appreciate the responses so far. Let me provide more context.

I'm exploring feasibility of building an indoor range in my town. There are a lot of constraints, including available real estate, cost per sf, soil/geography, location, etc. There is also the general cost/benefit ratio of the facility as a business - how much investment is warranted based on what the market will support.

This is a mid-sized market. There is no ROI projection that can justify a $3 or $4 million investment. 3 or 4 100-yd lanes is 7,000 sq ft which could easily eat up $1 million or more before anything else is done. The numbers add up really quick.

Location is very important. The big warehouses are outside the far side of town, 30 minutes or more from the primary market. Soil/water table issues eliminate underground/basement construction.

Half the market here is rifle shooters. Hunters occasionally, but AR/AK/PC Carbine and tactical are the mainstream. A lot of these are, obviously, the same people. Some of these people also shoot handguns. But not all. A 25-yd standard range is a possibility, but we don't know yet just how many of those rifle shooters will actively engage with a 25-yard-only facility.

I'm trying to assess how I can attract as many shooters as possible, in as many ways as possible and as many times as possible. There are some outdoor ranges, but they are either not very good or not very close. I've been to all of them.

What I'm looking for is ideas that can help me quantify the value, if any, of a mid-length rifle facility. If there is no added value, that's fine too. I just figure if there is something people are doing, someone in this group knows about it. Then it's up to me to figure out if that value justifies the investment.

Thanks. Hope this helps.

 

[TangoWhiskeyFoxtrot]

Never seen steel targets at indoor ranges, that might make me use one even at shorter ranges for pcc use or sbr. Some sort of reactive target would make for a more exciting outing to an indoor range.

Yes, and while I said long guns in the initial post I should have made it clear that I'm looking at the full range of carbines, SBRs, etc. Anything that's not a handgun.

 

[TangoWhiskeyFoxtrot]

I don’t shoot long guns often but when I do it outside but the guy next to me at the indoor range uses it for mag dumps with his AR every frickin’ time I go.

This is a big deal, too. The "customer experience" of shooting your pistol next to a jerk-off unloading his AK is not good. I'd really like to separate this if I can figure out how to do it in a viable way.

 

[TangoWhiskeyFoxtrot]

http://www.shootingrangeindustries.com/modular-shooting-solutions/

Long story short, a deal has been made with my wife that if I have to move back to the frozen tundra of Michigan, I get an indoor range.

Thanks. Just to be clear, I'm looking at a small, commercial facility located in (or close to) the mid- to upper-income part of town. I've done quite a bit of preliminary research, conversations with vendors, etc. I've got a pretty good handle on costs of construction, range outfitting, ventilation, etc. Where I am now is in trying to find the right combination of all these things to make a viable business.

 

[Greg Derr]

Your biggest challenge will be noise reduction.

 

[Slapshot]

Retail sales? Seems to me to really make a profit you would need to sell targets, ammo, memberships that extend certain privileges, firearms new and used, etc...

 

[TangoWhiskeyFoxtrot]

Retail sales? Seems to me to really make a profit you would need to sell targets, ammo, memberships that extend certain privileges, firearms new and used, etc...

Yes, absolutely.

Part of the reason I'm asking this question is that I need to figure out the maximum value I can provide to the upper income segment who love guns here, but have to plan an outing and spend half a day or more to go shoot. Memberships and amenities will be important, as will accessories, general gunsmith services, etc.

We will not compete head-to-head with the LGS guys here, many of whom have $500k or more in inventory. We will sell guns, but not as a main line or with a large inventory. We would look to sell the types of things that are impulse purchases at a range.

 

[TangoWhiskeyFoxtrot]

You don't specify what kind of shooting you are interested in but have you given 10m air rifles any consideration? I shoot 10m air pistols in the garage with no problems. Simple back stop no fumes of hearing protection needed View attachment 435455

I like this. I have given thought to some of this. Supporting a variety of low-impact shooting and target activities (including archery) is on our study list. Thanks.