1911 Firearm Addicts banner
321 - 339 of 339 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
I may be in the minority here, but personally I don't feel that many guns are worth their asking price. To me anything past Dan Wesson pricing territory is just unjustifiable for a 1911. Do I own expensive guns? Yep, sure do. However, companies like Cabot, Nighthawk, Wilson, and others basically are small custom companies with limited funding. They create their market with the inability to build orders quick enough. Word of mouth travels because of a new mfg in the market, with a new colored finish, a slide that feels extra smooth, and a 3lb trigger break, and all of a sudden, everyone is in love. Now your $1000 gun starts clipping exorbitant price milestones as supply and demand starts taking over. Let's face it, how long does a 1911 really take to build at a custom shop? 1-2 days max for machining, 1 day for finish and reassembly? And that's on a small scale production platform? And you have that much business that you can't fulfill orders in under 12 months? Nope. Don't buy it. That's a guy working out of his basement, not a full time custom shop. And at the very end of the day, my $600 STI Trojan shoots just as good as my $3k Wilson X9L.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
713 Posts
I may be in the minority here, but personally I don't feel that many guns are worth their asking price. To me anything past Dan Wesson pricing territory is just unjustifiable for a 1911. Do I own expensive guns? Yep, sure do. However, companies like Cabot, Nighthawk, Wilson, and others basically are small custom companies with limited funding. They create their market with the inability to build orders quick enough. Word of mouth travels because of a new mfg in the market, with a new colored finish, a slide that feels extra smooth, and a 3lb trigger break, and all of a sudden, everyone is in love. Now your $1000 gun starts clipping exorbitant price milestones as supply and demand starts taking over. Let's face it, how long does a 1911 really take to build at a custom shop? 1-2 days max for machining, 1 day for finish and reassembly? And that's on a small scale production platform? And you have that much business that you can't fulfill orders in under 12 months? Nope. Don't buy it. That's a guy working out of his basement, not a full time custom shop. And at the very end of the day, my $600 STI Trojan shoots just as good as my $3k Wilson X9L.
"I don't feel that many guns are worth their asking price."

Worth it to you, you mean? Well, I can understand that. But they are worth it to me - and many others here. People value quality differently. Some are happy with a Timex. Others prefer a Rolex or an Omega. Some thoroughly enjoy their Mustang. Others prefer a Ferrari. There is a pride of ownership in some of the very smallest details that just does it for some folks. Others don't care. And that's fine! But one can't really tell another that something is "not worth it" with any authority. Hell, I've had people tell me having kids isn't worth it. I'm sure they meant that for themselves. I've found it richly rewarding and one of the crown jewels of my life. ;)
 

· Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
"I don't feel that many guns are worth their asking price."

Worth it to you, you mean? Well, I can understand that. But they are worth it to me - and many others here. People value quality differently. Some are happy with a Timex. Others prefer a Rolex or an Omega. Some thoroughly enjoy their Mustang. Others prefer a Ferrari. There is a pride of ownership in some of the very smallest details that just does it for some folks. Others don't care. And that's fine! But one can't really tell another that something is "not worth it" with any authority. Hell, I've had people tell me having kids isn't worth it. I'm sure they meant that for themselves. I've found it richly rewarding and one of the crown jewels of my life. ;)
All valid points, that's why I prefaced it with 'being in the minority'. I believe many have grown accustomed to spending big bucks on guns that they're numb to the true value of what they're spending. 5k will build you a nice big block Chevy motor with 500hp = 1 gun. 10k will build you a 1000hp motor or 2-3 vacations with your family or fuel for your vehicle for the next several years = 2 pistols. I remember when I bought my first really expensive gun, I thought about it for DAYS! I had the money. It wasn't about that. It was more or less just the thought of what could I invest with this or purchase otherwise vs. buy this pistol. Once I ripped the bandaid off, it became easier on the next one. But still at the end of the day, these guns are just $50 hunks of aluminum or steel that can be CNC'ed with relative ease.
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
879 Posts
All valid points, that's why I prefaced it with 'being in the minority'. I believe many have grown accustomed to spending big bucks on guns that they're numb to the true value of what they're spending. 5k will build you a nice big block Chevy motor with 500hp = 1 gun. 10k will build you a 1000hp motor or 2-3 vacations with your family or fuel for your vehicle for the next several years = 2 pistols. I remember when I bought my first really expensive gun, I thought about it for DAYS! I had the money. It wasn't about that. It was more or less just the thought of what could I invest with this or purchase otherwise vs. buy this pistol. Once I ripped the bandaid off, it became easier on the next one. But still at the end of the day, these guns are just $50 hunks of aluminum or steel that can be CNC'ed with relative ease.
I’ll agree to disagree. My guns are another avenue to spend time with my son and keep him off drugs or video games. I doubt the smiths who put a ton of time and effort into a build think it’s “ just a $50 hunk of metal” $4k for the memories of shooting with my son. Explaining to him that these aren’t Glocks; you actually have to love and take care of these guns. The lifetime warranty that comes with owning a higher end 1911… I’ll happily pay that.
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
1,303 Posts
Beauty and value is in the eyes of the beholder. I don't smoke, don't drink (much), don't do drugs, and own my own cars (no car payments). I see no value in 2 vacations a year, nor the value of a 1000hp engine. I do see value in a 700hp Mustang Cobra, but the gas and insurance will kill me, and in the future my Cabot will be worth a lot more than the Cobra. And the Cobra will cost a lot more money than several Cabots and Hawks.

I don't know how old you are or your salary, but your opinion may change at some point in the future. I was fine w/ plastic guns when I started shooting, then I found a used Nighthawk Falcon for $2,500 and nothing was the same ever again. BUt as I said, that may or may not change for you in the future. I have a friend who shoots and has more money than me, but rather than buying Nighthawks or Cabots, he pays his 3 ex-wifes lots of money. To each their own... Whatever you have, enjoy the sport and enjoy the firearm.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
The engine piece is just an example to compare... Something that is complex to build, has a lot of moving parts, is much larger than a pistol, etc.

I don't really see how my age factors into it? I'm not anyone's spouse here, so you don't have to defend your purchase to me. I prefaced my entire post with - "I am likely in the minority and I personally don't feel they are worth it". Do I own expensive guns? Yes! Do they shoot well? Yes! Do I enjoy shooting them over my $500 polymer guns? Yes! All of the above! I'm just stating the expensive guns are overpriced for what you're getting and the value is driven up substantially by inability to fulfill orders - econ 101 - supply and demand.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
713 Posts
The engine piece is just an example to compare... Something that is complex to build, has a lot of moving parts, is much larger than a pistol, etc.

I don't really see how my age factors into it? I'm not anyone's spouse here, so you don't have to defend your purchase to me. I prefaced my entire post with - "I am likely in the minority and I personally don't feel they are worth it". Do I own expensive guns? Yes! Do they shoot well? Yes! Do I enjoy shooting them over my $500 polymer guns? Yes! All of the above! I'm just stating the expensive guns are overpriced for what you're getting and the value is driven up substantially by inability to fulfill orders - econ 101 - supply and demand.
Okay. Cool story bro. :ROFLMAO: ;) But most folks on here are gonna disagree with you. First your opinion is "I personally don't feel they are worth it" and you follow with a statement of fact, "I'm just stating the expensive guns are overpriced for what you're getting..."
Nobody will argue with your opinion. You're certainly entitled to it.
Many of us will say that your statement is just plain wrong.
Econ 101 will also teach you that craftmanship and innovation have enormous value. Well, actually, that might be in an advanced course. :cautious::rolleyes:
 

· Premium Member
WC sentinel, NH Thunder ranch, DW Valor , EB KC9,NH Counselor
Joined
·
4,327 Posts
I kind of understand what your saying however once you get into something like a Nighthawk anything below Dan Wesson level just seems kind of crude and unfinished because for me at least - I notice details I never knew where there before
As someone mentioned I bought a Nh Falcon and was all done 😊sold all my plastic guns to acquire another higher tier 1911
The MSRP on some are very tough to swallow so I dont I get them used .
The ads here have had more amazing deals in the last two weeks then I care to count.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
586 Posts
The engine piece is just an example to compare... Something that is complex to build, has a lot of moving parts, is much larger than a pistol, etc.

I don't really see how my age factors into it? I'm not anyone's spouse here, so you don't have to defend your purchase to me. I prefaced my entire post with - "I am likely in the minority and I personally don't feel they are worth it". Do I own expensive guns? Yes! Do they shoot well? Yes! Do I enjoy shooting them over my $500 polymer guns? Yes! All of the above! I'm just stating the expensive guns are overpriced for what you're getting and the value is driven up substantially by inability to fulfill orders - econ 101 - supply and demand.
Agreed. It's called creating a luxury brand. Are Rolex's really rare? Not hardly. Although they are a private company and very hush hush about their business, it's estimated they produce around 1,000,000 watches per year. However, through excellent marketing and control of their dealers, they have absolute control over the exorbitant prices they charge. Custom gun builders are no different, other than they can charge more per gun simply because they are in demand and can only produce so many guns per year. So if the buying public keeps paying their high prices, why not just keep raising the price? Bill Wilson is the smart man though. He created a brand know for excellence and customization, then scaled it up to make TONS of money. And lately, after developing the EDC-X9, they have continually massaged those parts to create new models so that the faithful feel obligated to own the next newest Wilson creation. Smart! Very Smart!
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
34,066 Posts
Let me just clarify - this is just a friendly conversation! All good people!
What’s your point?
The above hasn’t been friendly?
You have a lot of opinions.
Quite a few here don’t agree with your opinions.
If a $600 STI shoots as good as a Wilson, you must be a poor shooter. However, you are comparing apples and oranges.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
What’s your point?
The above hasn’t been friendly?
You have a lot of opinions.
Quite a few here don’t agree with your opinions.
If a $600 STI shoots as good as a Wilson, you must be a poor shooter. However, you are comparing apples and oranges.
Does an opinion make it unfriendly? Does an opposing point of view make it unfriendly? 🤷🏻‍♂️ No one has to agree with my opinion. It was to spark conversation. All I'm seeing from your post is you putting me down?
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
34,066 Posts
I’m being a realist.
If I was putting you down, there would be no doubt about it. I’m just saying, you are the one being argumentative and then you make the statement that it’s a friendly conversation, kinda odd.

As far as the STI-Wilson statement, if that got you butt hurt, that’s on you. But the statement is correct, if you can’t shoot the Wilson better, it’s all on you.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
531 Posts
And thus becomes every “X v. Y v. Z” opinion thread. I’ll never understand why anyone thinks their own opinion is worth anything. Was it solicited? Sort of, but that doesn’t create worth. But, that’s just, like, my opinion.
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
1,303 Posts
The engine piece is just an example to compare... Something that is complex to build, has a lot of moving parts, is much larger than a pistol, etc.

I don't really see how my age factors into it? I'm not anyone's spouse here, so you don't have to defend your purchase to me. I prefaced my entire post with - "I am likely in the minority and I personally don't feel they are worth it". Do I own expensive guns? Yes! Do they shoot well? Yes! Do I enjoy shooting them over my $500 polymer guns? Yes! All of the above! I'm just stating the expensive guns are overpriced for what you're getting and the value is driven up substantially by inability to fulfill orders - econ 101 - supply and demand.
Sorry, I didn't mean to offend. I was speaking w/ a member yesterday and he was 28 yo and didn't have a lot of money to spend on 1911s and mammoth ivory grips. Problem is, now he's addicted to new Hawks but also ivory grips o_O. As per my statement, I happen to be much more financially secure now than I was 20 or 30 or 40 years ago, for one thing, I'm not contributing into my IRA, and I'm not saving for a new house. I made a lot more money when I was 50 than when I was 25 or 30, that's all I mean by my statement. Sorry if I offended you.

I've spoken w/ executives at Nighthawk and Cabot, and they have tremendous backlog orders to fulfill. Both build high quality products, and there's a fine balance in meeting a growing client demand and maintaining high quality. I don't believe their backlog is driving their prices. No facts to back that up, just my opinion.

The key thing here to remember, is to enjoy the sport, enjoy time w/ family/friends, and enjoy the firearm you're taking to the range. We're all addicts here, what you're addicted to has never been a factor.
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
1,303 Posts
I’m being a realist.
If I was putting you down, there would be no doubt about it. I’m just saying, you are the one being argumentative and then you make the statement that it’s a friendly conversation, kinda odd.

As far as the STI-Wilson statement, if that got you butt hurt, that’s on you. But the statement is correct, if you can’t shoot the Wilson better, it’s all on you.
Thx, you ended my day w/ a smile and gave me a laugh. Thx @Bender and @NIU2009. I have to get up early and if I hang around here I'm just gonna get aggravated and not be able to sleep, so here I go w/ a smile...
 
321 - 339 of 339 Posts
Top