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Discussion Starter #1
How do you guys feel about alternating ammo rounds ( Ball, Hollow Point ,Ball ,Hollow Point etc.)in your magazine for cold weather carry. Cold weather not being a jacket either, Im talking a tshirt, sweatshirt , flannel, bibs and a heavy jacket. Many layers of clothing to penetrate. I've seen the test, and yes I wouldn't want to be shot wearing that. I carry federal hst in 9 and 45. I know placement is key. The face, neck but in a situation that might not always be a option. Thoughts?
 

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I don't understand the rationale behind alternating FMJ's (ball ammo) with HP's (hollow points).

Are you worried about HP's becoming clogged with clothing and failing to expand? If a HP fails to expand, it acts like a FMJ.

An advantage of 45 acp is that it remains an effective round even if it fails to expand. The large mass also helps it to stay on target as it passes through clothing and flesh.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I don't understand the rationale behind alternating FMJ's (ball ammo) with HP's (hollow points).

Are you worried about HP's becoming clogged with clothing and failing to expand? If a HP fails to expand, it acts like a FMJ.

An advantage of 45 acp is that it remains an effective round even if it fails to expand. The large mass also helps it to stay on target as it passes through clothing and flesh.
I've been thinking the hollow point doesn't have enough penetration to eliminate the threat through lots of clothes. You don't shoot a bear with hollow points. Ball or hard cast
 

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I agree that you don't shoot bear with HP's or ball ammo. When I lived in Alaska, we would carry rounds with flat nosed bullets made from hard cast lead. Of course, we also carried 44 mag revolvers. The nice thing about revolvers is that you can reliably shoot flat nosed bullets. With a semi-auto, the nose geometry can't be too flat.

Anyway, you mentioned ball ammo in your original post. That's why I'm confused. A plugged hollow point will generally penetrate the same as a ball round of equal mass.

Buffalo Bore does make special defensive ammo for large game in 9mm. I know of people in Alaska who have successfully used them to stop bear at close range. But I'm not sure you need to go to that extreme to defend against a human wearing multiple layers of clothing. I could maybe see switching to +P ammo.

You're asking a reasonable question. The answer really requires proper ballistic testing.
 

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If penetration is a concern with 45acp, upgrade to the 10mm. The bear ancedote is kind of irrelevant as I wouldn’t be shooting a bear with a 45 that doesn’t have a third digit or long Colt after the 5.

The fbi gel test is 5 layers of denim as well. Tnoutdoors on YouTube has some really good content on just about every factory load out there. Carry those HPs and fear not.
 

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The Hornady 230 gr. XTP is a hollow point that skews toward penetration over huge expansion. (They also tend to be extremely accurate).

I often carry handloads with the XTP bullet when I’m out where large, toothy critters roam, knowing that it’s the 2 legged vermin that most often require kinetic lead poisoning.
 

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Does anyone have any evidence of a .45acp failing to penetrate enough to stop a threat? I dont mean homemade tests either. Real evidence. I would like to know this for any caliber actually.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 

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I only carry 230gr FMJ.:thumbs:
 
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Let's not get too scientific here. How many layers would you wear if being shot with a 45acp? Modern self defense ammo is typically a little hotter than FMJ. So if it clogs.....you have an FMJ. Worry not, carry what you feel comfortable with.

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I am a huge fan of Black Hill's Honey Badger, it will punch through damn near anything and leave a big nasty wound channel in its path. Ironially, you don't need 230 gr to make that magic happen.

https://www.breachbangclear.com/ammo-watch-honey-badger-hunter-inception/
Specs are as follows:

.44 Magnum

160 Gr. HoneyBadger

Velocity 1800 FPS

Energy 1151 Ft. Lbs.

9mm Luger

125 Gr. Subsonic HoneyBadger

Velocity 1050 FPS

Energy 306 Ft. Lbs.

.45 ACP

135 Gr. HoneyBadger

Velocity 1325 FPS

Energy 526 Ft. Lbs.

 
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