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Which pistol to shoot?

  • Walther PPQ M2 Navy

    Votes: 2 22.2%
  • Wilson/Beretta 92G Brigadier Tactical

    Votes: 7 77.8%
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Codename Duchess
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3,775 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
This month I'm heading to CSAT (Combat Shooting And Tactics) for their Advanced Individual Tactics (AIT) course. For those who aren't familiar with CSAT it's owned and operated by the venerable Paul Howe. For those who aren't familiar with Mr Howe he's former Delta Force and was part of the Black Hawk Down battle.

Per his website the description for AIT is:
The skills listed below will be covered during AIT both in light/no light environments.

Safety Exterior Contact
Combat Mindset Single Hallway CQB
Basic Live Fire Review Single CQB/T Intersections
Range Fire Medical
Barricade Work
Live Fire Culmination Scenarios
Vehicle Bailouts
Low Light all of the above

This course will focus on the safely resolving active shooter problems wherever they are encountered to include a safe link up with police. Course material will be applicable to civilians, teachers and police.

EQUIPMENT NEEDED: Concealment Bag or holster, pistol, eye and ear protection. A
hand held light is required, weapon lights are optional. Bring extra batteries and train how you intend to fight. Bring inclement weather gear as required. Students will deploy weapon from concealed carry or Active Shooter bag during all scenarios and range fire.
Ammunition

Pistol Ball (or duty) 600 rds


I'm obviously quite excited for 3 days of nothing but learning from some of the best. My dilemma is which pistol to shoot. Both have lights so that's equal but the PPQ has a threaded barrel so that ups my 'I'm a badass operator' factor. :laugh: But really though, each has its advantages and since I don't have a 1911 in 9mm these are my top choices. What says the brain trust?

20161104_205842-1.jpg


This will be my main thread for the class, the 'after action report' and any video I put together.
 

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The real question, is which do you carry?

If this class is geared more toward "Super operator **** goes down" type of thing, what would you grab then? Or for home defense?

If it's just for funsies my vote goes to the Beretta really. Cause i recently got to hold a WC92 and waa floored with it. And because I love Beretta.

I'm waiting to vote until I know whats most likely to relate to the material.

-Cory
 

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Codename Duchess
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3,775 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
The real question, is which do you carry?

If this class is geared more toward "Super operator **** goes down" type of thing, what would you grab then? Or for home defense?
I carry both and I've asked myself which I would want to have on me should I need it but it's a toss-up. Both can shoot 1.5" or less groups at 25 yards so accuracy is moot. The PPQ has the advantage of the consistent trigger pull whereas the double action first shot of the Beretta could be more challenging. Especially with a lot of the class being shoot one-handed since I'll have a flashlight in my support hand.

I'm heading to the range tomorrow with both for a little testing. I figured I'll warm up with the Beretta and run the CSAT Standards one-handed and then do the same with the PPQ. I'm curious how I'll end up scoring.
 

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For no definable reason I would go for the Beretta. But which comes to your hand and on target the best has to be your choice. I don't think either one would be a bad choice.
 

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Never Forget
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8,984 Posts
If these are your two best carry guns, take them both. You could experience a failure. Or you may just want to learn the finite details of how you shoot both guns in a real world scenario.

I love 1911's. I also love just about any gun of any persuasion. No real brand loyalty here. I think if you own it you should practice with it and try and get as good as your best shooter with them all. Just my opinion.
 

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Premium Member
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1,177 Posts
That's a great point Raylan. I have often thought of switching pistols in a class to get the experience of both pistols, but I never have. For my most recent class, a two day, out of towner, I took three 1911's and two supplies of ammo. Fortunately my primary items ran flawlessly, but nothing wrong with being prepared!

SA, I hope you make it to the range today for your self induced pre-test. I'm anxious to hear how that goes!
 

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Codename Duchess
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3,775 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
You will love this course. It's unlike anything else out there.
Once I get my fat ass back in shape I want to take his 3 day 'Close Quarters Tactics - Pistol/Hand/Knife' class. Actually, being able to take that class is one of my biggest motivators for hitting the gym again.

Here's the class description-
This class instructs students in three disciplines, pistol/hands/knife over three days. Close quarter pistol will be taught on day 1 along with empty hand techniques/stand up fighting on day one. Ground fighting will be covered on day 2 with more live fire pistol. Knife will be added in on day 3. The course will address the following major topics:

Safety
Pistol/Knife set up
Close Quarter Shooting-Arm length to contact
Strikes/Blocks
Knife concealment/Knife deployment
Stand up fighting
Ground fighting/escapes

This course will focus on simple and effective techniques that can be practiced in the future and integrated into a student’s personal training regimen. Students should have 16 hours of basic handgun training before attending this course.

PHYSICAL REQUIREMENTS:
Good physical shape

EQUIPMENT NEEDED:
Pistol Ball 300 rounds
Training Knife
Training Gun
Eye/ear protection
Cup-Recommended
Towel
Flashlight


With the content of AIT and CQT a person should be pretty well equipped to handle themselves in most situations, I'd think. With practice of course, just completing the class doesn't in itself mean anything if you don't do anything with it.
 

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Regular Forces
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664 Posts
I haven't taken that course yet, but - being CSAT - you know it will be simple yet effective.

There are too many personal defense courses that are too complicated, or so "martial artsy" it would take the average guy years to master it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Codename Duchess
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Discussion Starter #13
I haven't taken that course yet, but - being CSAT - you know it will be simple yet effective.

There are too many personal defense courses that are too complicated, or so "martial artsy" it would take the average guy years to master it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That's my thinking. I don't want to learn a specific discipline (i.e jiu-jitsu, karate) instead I want what will actually save my bacon in a street scuffle.
 

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If you don't have the double action/single action down I would go with the consistent trigger pull of the PPQ Navy! I have one also and it's a great accurate gun!
 

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Codename Duchess
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Discussion Starter #16
I blew my plans. I'm in the process of moving which was supposed to happen Friday but had to be rescheduled to Sunday. I forgot I had already packed my ammo so when I went to load up this morning I was sorely disappointed. I'll make it to the range here in the next few days.
 

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Codename Duchess
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Discussion Starter #18
Gokd luck with the move, and you'll be able to get to that course (or a similar one) soon.

-Cory
Thanks! He only has two CQT classes scheduled this year with the second one being late March. Writing about it today got me all worked up so I'm considering scheduling it. 4 months would give me enough time to get my cardio back up and drop 30-40 pounds.
 

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Im struggling with my cardio. Colder air is rough on the lungs, and my times show it. I dont have weight loss goals, but cant maintain consistant times right now.

Extra time also gives you a chance to research his material more. More knowledge headed in means more you can pick up at the class.

-Cory
 
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