Crazy Guy in Parking Lot, Bad Morning

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Hunt5877, Feb 5, 2020.

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  1. Hunt5877

    Hunt5877 Well-Known Member Supporting Addict

    Jan 27, 2019
    So I live a bit north but work in Austin about 8:30 this morning I can hear screaming outside my office. I exit the door to see what's going on and I see what appears to be a homeless guy walking through the lot screaming obscenities. This is not abnormal but still concerning, more concerning is there is a lady standing next to her car seemingly oblivious to this guy. At this point I go ahead and call 911 to report the suspicious behavior and keep and eye on the guy.

    This is where things escalate quickly as he sees her and she seems to be unaware or unconcerned by his behavior or demeanor. The guy has got to be high or seriously mentally challenged but as I'm on the phone with police he confronts her and then aggressively grabs her. I'm about 35 yards from what's going on but unarmed at my place of work and on the phone with 911 when she tries to break lose of his hold and get some distance, he then drops his pants completely. Jesus, this is with 10 seconds of their initial contact and I'm now faced with the fact that I now have to intervene. Luckily I'm not the only one who has heard or seen what's going on and as I start to run to that direction I can see 2 other guys to my left coming in as well. The guy sees us coming towards him and starts to run.

    The guy gets about 200 yards before we see Austin APD coming through the lot and apprehend the guy. The lady was ok but extremely shaken obviously. I have to give credit to the PD as they were lightning fast to get to us I'm not sure if there were other calls aside from mine but I was damn glad to see them.

    After I had some time to calm down and the adrenaline wore off I couldn't help but regret not acting sooner or how surprised I was that this happened in front of me so quickly. This was tough call for me for a few reasons, at first this was screaming, which escalated to assault and then what could have been a sexual assault at 8:30 in the morning.

    I have a personal belief that I don't get involved in others verbal disagreements or put myself in harm's way unless I have a firm understanding of the situation and in this case neither was the case when I made the 911 call. At the point that I saw things getting physical and the guy exposed himself I made a decision to get involved that said I had not given enough thought to "what" I would or was going to do when I got to them but as I said when I advanced he ran and I was unarmed so I'm thinking that was the best case scenario given the circumstances.

    Police took a statement and I was mortified when talking to the officer and he said they were considering what to charge him with and was told the exposure would be a misdemeanor and no more serious than a speeding ticket and would not rise to the level of a sexual assault because no "gratification" was achieved...WTF?? I have to believe there would be assault charges but not sure I'll hear back on that as the officer taking my statement said a detective may or may not contact me.

    I guess to me this was a damn fine response in terms of time for APD to respond but being unarmed dealing with somebody who was under the influence or having some severe mental problems left me feeling helpless to intervene effectively and efficiently until I believe I was morally left with no choice but to try and assist. That said I'm not sure how he would have reacted and if that had forced my hand to raise escalations had I been armed.

    Not sure what the question is or what I'm looking for but this was a bad situation that could have gotten far worse and one I'm not looking to repeat. A lot of respect for you guys in uniform who have to deal with this stuff on a daily basis I did not enjoy the interaction.
     
  2. Mike Meints

    Mike Meints Well-Known Member

    Mar 2, 2017
    It looks like you had the appropriate response . Many times it takes a few moments to realize what is actually happening before you can actually put yourself in motion . Kudos !
     

  3. duketbrd88

    duketbrd88 Well-Known Member

    Sep 1, 2011
    Any cameras around your work that might have caught it? You did the right thing. To bad she wasn't carrying and shot his balls off. Did she thank you at all? Did you get to talk to to her, just curious. I guess she would have to be the one to press charges on the scumbag. IDK, I probably would have done the same thing.
     
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  4. Old Sea Dragon

    Old Sea Dragon Well-Known Member

    Feb 10, 2018
    Retired cop here, I agree with Mike, you did fine. Don’t be hard on yourself as you played it exactly right.
     
  5. eb07

    eb07 Active Member

    24
    Jan 24, 2020
    My take: Other people need to be responsible for their own situation awareness. You can't go around all day warning people and taking responsibility for them. Hopefully the woman learned her lesson and will be more aware and reactive next time. I think you did what you could at the time and acted appropriately.
     
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  6. Dub

    Dub born in the wrong century

    Mar 19, 2017
    Hopefully she will see it through and press charges.

    Good on you to intervene and initiate the call to the Police.
     
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  7. bnaples

    bnaples Well-Known Member

    Jun 24, 2013
    Unarmed bad guy. Multiple unarmed good guys ready to give knuckle sandwiches. Consider yourself lucky that you got to experience an old world encounter (well maybe not the part about him dropping his pants). Too many times these days guns are involved. Sounds like best case scenario. Good job sir.
     
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  8. boatdoc

    boatdoc Well-Known Member

    Aug 3, 2015
    I talk to my MRs all the time about being aware of who and what is around you at ALL times
     
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  9. Hunt5877

    Hunt5877 Well-Known Member Supporting Addict

    Jan 27, 2019
    I was able to talk to her briefly before the cops arrived just to ask her if she was ok, it took about 15 or 20 minutes for her to breakdown and start crying, probably shock. She seemed like a tough lady and I'm hoping the same she follows through and makes sure charges are filed.
     
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  10. UBOATDOC

    UBOATDOC THE DOCTOR WILL SEE YOU......LATER Supporting Addict

    Apr 5, 2015
    Good Job Mike. Sadly it sounds that this guy is likely has one or two mental health/psychiatric diagnoses. I see this almost daily here they are brought in to me(work in rural emergency medicine, but 1/4 mile off major East/West interstate). The frustration of what to do for these folks is pretty great as there are limited beds for care, almost no long term treatment available or "sanitariums" as we had until the 80's. Some folks felt that long term or life long removal from society was "inhumane" and while that may be the case for some patients, the care plan that has these same patients responsible for taking care of themselves and taking their own meds is an absurd precept. Thus the downfall/destruction/dismantling of the mental health system in the US. and disastrous consequences for human beings who have basically "altered reality testing" from either a functional or chemically induced impetus.

    These patients are dangerous, for example, over 1/3 of all emergency department health care workers have been assaulted at least once in their careers. I personally do not negotiate with these folks and if they are agitated and looking like they are about to tear up my ER or harm themselves, they get both physically and chemically restrained. But this is virtually impossible outside a hospital. As someone just walking around during their day, I try to maintain some level of alertness and avoid folks that appear to have these kind of things going on as I am sure most everyone else does. I am glad that you and a couple other folks were there to help out. It could have been very bad for the lady.
     
  11. Apollo99

    Apollo99 Well-Known Member

    Jun 26, 2017
    Mike you did the right thing, Call 9-1-1 and report as you did. You properly waited till the situation advanced until you started to get involved. You did the right thing and everything turned out ok. I've seen situations where the victim turned on their rescuers when the victims felt the rescuer acted inappropriately towards the attacker. Being a retired law enforcement officer, at this point I just call, observe and report. It would have to get really serious for me to take any further action
     
  12. BLRGSD

    BLRGSD Well-Known Member

    90
    Sep 28, 2019
    I always thought a fire extinguisher makes a good disruption in the attackers actions.CO2, or dry chemical, or the extinguisher container itself is a good distraction of opportunity. Disrupting the attacker's thought process having to pay attention to your sudden appearance on the scene may create enough time for their potential victim to get further away from the attacker. Whether to physically intervene is a personal choice. Is one physically capable of action, is one experienced in physical altercations, sound the "alarm", draw other's attention to what is occurring, others may then react and assist also. The more the merrier.

    One has to know their limitations, but do something. Just don't record the event with your phone to post later on social media. Place yourself in the victim's position; would you rather have someone intervene on your behalf in some manner, or stand there recording your slaughter with their cell phone?

    Me? I choose the animated exhilaration of countering the attack.
     
  13. 1911enthusist

    1911enthusist Active Member

    125
    Feb 7, 2019
    What a bunch of bullies here.
     
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  14. SVG

    SVG Well-Known Member

    699
    Mar 9, 2019
    Evil exists when good men do nothing.

    You did exactly as you should have.
     
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  15. Innominate

    Innominate Active Member

    94
    Jul 6, 2018
    Sounds like you did the right thing.

    @BLRGSD interesting idea using a fire extinguisher. Never thought about that.

    Not sexual assault if gratification is not achieved? Wtf is right.

    We generally avoid downtown Austin. When we are there I keep my eyes up. I don't know what the answer is but they need to change their tactic on the homeless problem here.
     
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  16. BLRGSD

    BLRGSD Well-Known Member

    90
    Sep 28, 2019
    In some states there is a legal difference between assault and battery and constitutes two separate, distinct crimes. Assault is the threat to do something when the person threatening has the ability, presence, or immediate capability to commit the crime implied, or stated and the potential victim has the immediate fear the threat made will be committed upon the potential victim. Battery is the unlawful touching, in all it's degrees, of another who does not give permission, or agree to the touching.

    In my humble opinion, someone verbally assaulting a woman while closing the distance between them, dropping their pants and continuing the confrontation IS committing a sexual assault. The man is certainly not doing those actions to ask the female her opinion if he has a medical condition on his privates that should be looked at by a physician. Even though there was not yet any physical content of a direct sexual nature yet made due to the intervention of good citizens, an assault was made, an arrest could be justified and prosecuted.

    Unfortunately, many prosecutors consider their total conviction rates more important in their reelection prospects than bringing charges and letting a jury decide. I have also been witness to lazy officers not wanting to make the arrest due to their lack of fortitude, knowledge, or having been criticized by supervisors previously for making what the supervisor deemed, in their opinion, a "weak arrest".

    I have on several occasions also experienced officers making such an arrest and getting charges brought and convictions obtained due to the officer's knowledge of the elements of the crime as written in the statutes and the officer's ability to clearly describe the events in a report, the elements of the crime charged involved and getting witness statements that substantiate the charges.

    The chances of charges being presented by the prosecution and achieving a just conviction are greatly increased when the officer completes a professionally written report and charging affidavit, testifies truthfully and honestly at all times under oath in court, presents a professional appearance and demeanor, doesn't argue with the defense on cross examination and makes eye contact with the jurors when answering question from both prosecution and defense thereby persuading the jurors of their credibility and truthfulness in their testimony.

    An additional way for officers to consider convincing the prosecutor to bring the charges desired is to charge several crimes for the incident; felony and misdemeanor, against the perpetrator, letting the prosecutor bargain with the defense and still obtain convictions. Charging one obvious crime and arguing the prosecutor will not charge other crimes is not the call of the officer. It is the prosecutors duty to decide what crimes the prosecutor will or will not ultimately follow through with. Give the prosecutor something to plea bargain with. That way the defense views it as a win (they tell their client they got some charges dropped, therefore, plead guilty to the other(s)) and the prosecution obtains a conviction, keeping their conviction rate high that they can boast about the next election. (This is the way the real jurisprudence system works). Hopefully the perpetrator gets into the system, or gets their previous bail/probation revoked and ends up locked up. Who can say how many potential victims will have been spared a traumatic experience such as this lady experienced.

    I presented this short dissertation with the intent to familiarize citizens inexperienced in matters of police actions and the not uncommon decision processes of prosecutors. This is in no way meant as a criticism of previous posts, experiences, actions and discussions.

    A Sean Connery said in the movie "Untouchables", when he explained basic police intuition and objectives to disheartened Treasury Agent Kevin Costner; "Here endith the lesson".
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2020
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  17. Hunt5877

    Hunt5877 Well-Known Member Supporting Addict

    Jan 27, 2019
    Thanks for educating me I was just sick to my stomach about the whole event. The officers who responded were absolutely professional, expedient and cool headed and expressed their own concerns about what the prospects were and the challenges with the homeless in the area. I appreciate everybody who gave their thoughts here and although I acted as I thought I should have my thoughts or regrets about any inaction or delay were an after thought when I more carefully considered the actions I would want or expect if it was my Wife, Mother or Sister. I can't imagine these instances will decrease if more substantive ideas come to bear when dealing with these types of folks.
     
  18. BLRGSD

    BLRGSD Well-Known Member

    90
    Sep 28, 2019
    I completely understand the frustrations peace officers are experiencing dealing with the mentally ill. Current liberal politically correct laws and policies are wrecking havoc in society. Just look at what is happening in New York State and city. It is my firm belief that these so-called "progressive" laws, commonly funded by George Soros'' billions, is by design and with purpose of creating conditions in society so repulsive that people will scream for more draconian government action that further violate our Constitutional Rights in order to "restore law and order". But one needs to ask the all important question; "Whose definition of law and order."
    Stalin, Hitler, PolPot, Xi's, etc., are they proposing to enact?

    Numerous district attorney's currently in office in the U.S. have been and are financially funded by Soros organizations. Those D.A.'s are complete disasters in that they refuse to persecute horrendous and "minor" crimes, causing society to become more unsafe, dangerous, hateful and divided. Two examples of Soros funded D.A.s that are incompetent and corrupt are the current prosecutor in St. Louis, MO. and the current Soros funded prosecutor in Orange County Florida (Orlando), who has had several first degree homicide cases taken away from her office and handed off to another D.A.by our great Gov. DeSantis, due to her refusal to charge/seek the death penalty on two horrific homicide cases. Yes, Florida still has an active death penalty. Both were/are funded by Soros millions to perpetrate an agenda alien to the historical norms in America. Thankfully the Soros puppet in Orlando is not running for re-election. I think she knows the Governor will remove her from office after her last refusal to charge 1st degree murder in a horrific case in Osceola County if she runs again.

    What is happening in Cali, N.Y. and other cities and states is insane. By refusing to require bail, immediately releasing arrested suspects that continually commit crime after crime upon release, or charge anyone stealing less than $950.00 worth of property (California), etc., etc. is part of the crazy liberal Soros type's goal to destroy American society, as we have known it, from within.

    If anyone should question, "Why, what is their purpose for doing such things?" the answer is: "follow the money". Power, wealth, greed and ego are the historical reasons for all degradation in societies. It is the ethos pathological sociopaths live their lives by. Accumulation of money, power, societal position is all they live for.

    We all need to be responsible citizens and be thoroughly informed about candidates running for District Attorney, state legislature, county and city offices. Find out where financial support is coming from and who is providing the money, what their actual performance has been, not what they say they will do. Ask police officers, firefighters, the average people who work in the jobs responsible for the general safety and standard of living of the community you live in. Ask, but do it privately, discreetly, when they are not on duty and pledge to keep their responses confidential. Keep that pledge. You may encounter some who will not respond due to fear of losing their jobs and means to support their families, but gain their trust and you will get their honest opinion. They know best who is honest and who cannot be trusted in what they say, or do.

    We, The People, have the duty, the responsibility and capability to stop the insanity and corruption.
     

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