Dan Wesson Customer Service "pass off"... still no answer :(

Discussion in '1911 Gunsmithing' started by TheCollector, Nov 7, 2018.

  1. TheCollector

    TheCollector Well-Known Member

    Aug 25, 2018
    Questions:
    1) Is there a DW Rep. on/at/near this forum? If so, please PM me.
    2) Is the DW Guardian. .38 super frame machined differently than the 9mm?
    3) If the answer to #2 is NO. Why do they appear different as shown in the pics. below?
    *note* I ask this because I bought 2 Ed Brown snakeskin MSHs (they are identical except one is SS, one is Blue) for my 2 Guardians. They fit like a glove on the 9 mm. and are so mismatched on the .38 super that I could catch my toe on it and trip. (almost a .100 mismatch). The side by side comparison of the two frames are obvious.
    So is the mismatch of MSH to .38 frame.
    Why can't DW support simply answer #2 yes or no???????
    IMG_1863 (2).jpg
    IMG_1892 (2).jpg IMG_1893 (2).jpg View attachment 175197
     
  2. DukeSoprano

    DukeSoprano Supporting Addict Supporting Addict

    Jan 17, 2013

  3. Longbow

    Longbow Well-Known Member

    568
    Aug 15, 2018
    Looking at your third pic, with grips off, it looks like the MSH retaining pins are drilled in different places.

    Could be just the pic though.

    And looking at the bottom pic it looks like the MSH are different sizes.
     
    richiecotite likes this.
  4. TheCollector

    TheCollector Well-Known Member

    Aug 25, 2018
    yes on both accounts..... that is the reason for the questions to DW....
     
    Longbow likes this.
  5. WC145

    WC145 Every day is Saturday and every night's a party!

    Jan 1, 2013
    I wouldn't expect to be able to install an Ed Brown MSH in a Dan Wesson and not require any fitting. Rule number one with 1911s and aftermarket parts - nothing is "drop in" - if an aftermarket part doesn't require fitting it is the exception, not the rule.
     
    PewPewPtwang, FWoo45, boatdoc and 3 others like this.
  6. WWB

    WWB Administrator Staff Member Admin Moderator Supporting Addict

    Apr 11, 2015
    MSH generally require fitting. And there is no DW rep. I would contact [email protected]. They do some custom work and will probably install it and refinish the frame if asked.
     
    WHEELS, Capthobo, FWoo45 and 2 others like this.
  7. TheCollector

    TheCollector Well-Known Member

    Aug 25, 2018
    Why did the Ed Brown MSH fit the 9mm Guardian like a glove and be that far off on .38 super Guardian, fitting Sooooooo badly.. (same EB MSH) on supposedly nearly the same gun... Are you saying DW quality control is THAT lax???... once again, the question is not answered... see question #2 ^^^^^^^^^^^^
     
    ZoidMeister likes this.
  8. WWB

    WWB Administrator Staff Member Admin Moderator Supporting Addict

    Apr 11, 2015
    No we are saying the parts are fitted not drop in. I wouldn’t expect any MSH in any gun to fit 100% if just swapped out.
     
  9. TheCollector

    TheCollector Well-Known Member

    Aug 25, 2018
    So are you saying the machine work when making the frame at DW is so lax their frames can be That much different?
     
    ZoidMeister likes this.
  10. WWB

    WWB Administrator Staff Member Admin Moderator Supporting Addict

    Apr 11, 2015
    No it’s done by hand they are not all the same. These are not drop in slap together guns. Parts are fitted to them. If you have 2 guns build by a smith chances are the parts won’t swap between them. 1911s are not glocks or ar15s
     
  11. gun_fan111

    gun_fan111 Well-Known Member

    Mar 23, 2014
    I have had a conversation with Keith on this exact topic and he confirmed that bobtailing a Guardian is done by hand, so there will be some variation. My 38 Super does not match up with a EB msh either, unfortunately.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
    PewPewPtwang, boatdoc, WC145 and 2 others like this.
  12. TheCollector

    TheCollector Well-Known Member

    Aug 25, 2018
    Ok... Excuse my ignorance when it comes to making a a machined part from a design that's a hundred+ years old.. I'm from a trade (30+ years of Tooling manufacturing... NOT tools like wrenches) that requires precision machining. I would have thought a company like CZ-USA that has to make thousands or tens of thousands of 1911 frames would use CNC design, programming and milling where their products are within certain tolerances... say +/- .030 from one to another. The only fitting would be required for mating parts to be fitted together with minimal effort. In our industry we would have manufactured parts that are assured to go together. Having said that. How would DW ever expect that they could easily fix a problem gun when they have to hand create each F ing part? If you can't manufacture 2 frames of the same type to be within 3/32 of an inch to each other, you have a poor manufacturing plan or poor people trying to execute it.
    Oh... by the way. I just took the MSH from my Kobra Carry and installed it in my 9 mm DW. fit great.. just took the MSH from my 9mm DW and put it in my KC, it fit great. Just took my after market EB MSH and put it in my KC, it fit great.... ALL of the 3 MSH I just mentioned fit like DOG **** in my DW .38 super....
    I would conclude from that, that the .38 is machined different than those other guns intentionally... OR its a piece of ****!!!
    Why is it that mags. & grips and a lot of slide locks can drop in from gun to gun, even on different brands?


    I'll chock this up to lessons learned and go about my business...
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
  13. TheCollector

    TheCollector Well-Known Member

    Aug 25, 2018
    wish I would have seen your post before my rant ^^^
    At least I now know that DW .38's have very little quality control.
     
  14. TheCollector

    TheCollector Well-Known Member

    Aug 25, 2018
    I did get this response from a DW gunsmith.. Endre Toth
    Good morning,
    Mainspring housings, especially the bobbed or rounded heal types are typically blended with the frame, .... If it is an aluminum frame it cannot be Blended down to the mainspring housing... The process would require reanodizing the frame, we do not reanodize frames as the process done a second time can damage the frame.

    We do have thicker bobbed, checkered MSH that get blended down to the frame for a relatively seem less fit.

    Endre Toth
    Pistol Smith
    Dan Wesson firearms
    65 Borden Ave
    Norwich, NY. 13815
     
  15. gun_fan111

    gun_fan111 Well-Known Member

    Mar 23, 2014
    Sorry Collector, I meant to say that mine does not match up with an Ed Brown msh I bought to replace the original part. Original msh is fit well and you can see it was blended with the frame.
     
  16. WWB

    WWB Administrator Staff Member Admin Moderator Supporting Addict

    Apr 11, 2015
    That’s not what I see I see a gun that was hand fit and when replacing parts they will need to be hand fit.. And expecting parts made by a different manufacturer on top of it should just drop in is unreasonable IMO. And if you think that’s is how it works your need to learn about 1911s in general. Your best bet IMO is checker your existing MSH have just that refinished. Or have the frame blended to the MSH of your choice and refinished. With any manufacturer sometimes you get lucky a part will drop in. Most of the time you don’t.
     
  17. TheCollector

    TheCollector Well-Known Member

    Aug 25, 2018
    If you know a smith that will "snakeskin" mill my MSH and refinish it for $69.95 let me know... otherwise this DW can stay as bland as it is.
    By the way.... my guess is I couldn't even buy a DW MSH and have it fit with an acceptable mismatch for this gun its 3/32" different from ANY of my other bobtail guns... Sir, in manufacturing of a part this small (1911 frame) that's a boat load of crappy QC.
    So what it if its "BLENDED" they had to make one piece of S**T (moderated for the moderator) fit another piece of S**T (see above note)
     
    ZoidMeister likes this.
  18. Integrity Arms

    Integrity Arms 1911 Pistol Smith

    Mar 20, 2017
    If all parts were drop in to a perfect fit, then no need for the gunsmith any longer. Everyone could just replace parts at random. Try putting that MS housing in a Kimber Bobtailed gun.. You can't cause their bobtails are round.. LIkewise in a S&W E-series round butt or a pc 1911. also different profile. Parts can be blended to the gun. DW like other manufacturers farm some of their things out, like finish. So Ms housings are blended to the frame to prevent refinishing the frame, which like Andre stated cannot be done effectively to an aluminum anodized frame. Everyone is trying to say that parts are hand fit for a reason. Andre explained it very well. I and Zoid both suggested the Ed Brown because profile wise that is as close as your gonna get. What you bought when you bought a Dan Wesson is a gun very well machined with all hand fit parts, a semi custom in it's own right for the price of a factory line gun.. Actually Dan Wesson is one of the few manufacturers with outstanding quality control, they sell blem guns with scratches or fins surface defects that sometimes cannot even be located if they didn't tell you where they were. Honestly man, your making yourself look bad. Dan Wesson is pretty widely respected across the board, not only for quality control, but for outstanding CS and some of the best dudes you'd ever want to work with. I happen to own about 15 of em and just customized two Valors in a row and from a Gunsmithing stand point they were tons better than many others I have had in here to work on..
     
    Busa Dave, FWoo45, Kip and 1 other person like this.
  19. TheCollector

    TheCollector Well-Known Member

    Aug 25, 2018
    Hey look... first off I really don't give a lot of care what I make myself look like when no one here will admit to a simple fact. That much variation in a a product by a company that manufactures thousands of the same product is just not a good business practice. I'm all for parts being fitted to each other as a quality touch. But if your products have to be altered 3/32 of an inch to fit each other you are not controlling the manufacturing of the individual parts. If you want to build a single gun one at a time from start to finish that's fine.... if you want to make thousands and have minimal cost to repair those you sell & service you have to control your variances. It appears that I have a one of a kind gun (in a sense) and if something simple goes wrong.. ie: a cracked MSH, I have a costly repair bill because I have to send a gun to someone to custom fit a part back on it because it 3/32 different than available replacement parts... even from the gun manufacture.

    EOD.
     
    WHEELS likes this.
  20. Integrity Arms

    Integrity Arms 1911 Pistol Smith

    Mar 20, 2017

You need 3 posts to add links to your posts! This is used to prevent spam.

Verification:
Draft saved Draft deleted