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I’ve heard a lot hype about Front Sight being the premiere firearms training facility. I’ve also heard lots of negative things as well . Does any of this have any teeth to speak of. Thanks
Font Sight Hype
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I've got one of their "Commander" memberships but I haven't been able to go yet. From what I've heard, it's decent training for what it is. You're not going to get top of the line stuff, but it's still good and can help improve your skills. I will say though, prepare to get the sh*t spammed out of your email. I'm getting about 3-6 emails a day from them, most just being the same thing for several days. I'm hoping to be able to go sometime this year for a few of their classes.
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There is something about their website and other marketing materials that screams SCAM to me. But I can't quite put my finger on what it is.
Maybe it's the narcissistic photos of the founder, Dr. Ignatius Piazza, all over the website.
Maybe it's the fact that he refers to himself as "Dr. Ignatius Piazza," yet I can't find out any info on what he is a Doctor in/of.
Maybe it's the fact that he cites having earned a "Four Weapons Combat Master certificate," which is something that I've never heard of and sounds completely made up.
Maybe it's the narcissistic photos of the founder, Dr. Ignatius Piazza, all over the website.
Maybe it's the fact that he refers to himself as "Dr. Ignatius Piazza," yet I can't find out any info on what he is a Doctor in/of.
Maybe it's the fact that he cites having earned a "Four Weapons Combat Master certificate," which is something that I've never heard of and sounds completely made up.
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I thought the same thing at first, especially when I got my membership for a pretty low price. While I'm not a big fan of the way they market themselves, I wouldn't necessarily call it a scam. You do get some decent training, and they are pretty upfront about the fees you'd have to pay. For my level of membership, I'd have to pay $50(maybe) a year for a background check only if I plan to take classes. Where they are misleading is in their "normal pricing". No one is paying $20k for these memberships, and they wouldn't be worth that. They are frequently "on sale" for around $100-$200 or so, and for that they are worth it. They are banking on the fact that the majority of people who buy memberships will use it once or twice and that's it. I know one guy who's been about 15 times now. According to him, it's by no means top of the line training, but it is still useful and definitely decent for the price and can help hone your shooting skills.
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I ended up impulse purchasing a membership for a screaming deal a few years back, (~100 for a lifetime unlimited something-something) and have yet to use it. After getting it, I ended up doing more research- yes totally wrong order. Here's what I learned. You can get some reasonable "training" but will almost certainly be exposed to dogmatic and out of date techniques too, up to you to figure out which is which. Unfortunately unless you've trained with others you could be "indoctrinated" to things like the weaver stance, teacup grip etc as cutting edge techniques. Keep in mind the guy who planned all this out did it by obsessively practicing to pass a "test" of skill with a set course of fire and has zero tactical/legal/real world experience that I'm aware of. He is a developer/narcissist who built a business plan on a baffle em w/ bull&*@& MLM foundation.
I planned to use it as practice/drill/vacation time vs true training. It's half pyramid scheme (or more based on reports) and part gun vacation based on my reading etc. I haven't made it more a priority and I'm not sure I will. Bottom line, if it's convenient I'd go, and I'm use it'd be worthwhile practice but I'd take everything with a big *** grain of salt when it comes to "training"
I planned to use it as practice/drill/vacation time vs true training. It's half pyramid scheme (or more based on reports) and part gun vacation based on my reading etc. I haven't made it more a priority and I'm not sure I will. Bottom line, if it's convenient I'd go, and I'm use it'd be worthwhile practice but I'd take everything with a big *** grain of salt when it comes to "training"
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21 Posts
Thanks for the feedback. I also hear that Gunsite and Sig academy are both worth taking a peek. Anyone familiar wth Thunder Ranch in Oregon? I’ve been shooting since my teens but never had any “formal” training of any kind. The only training facility near me is in Illinois called The Site. Looks interesting
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8,484 Posts
Found this online ,
www.ignatiuspiazza.com › about
About | Ignatius Piazza
Ignatius Piazza – From Chiropractor to Four Weapons Combat Master. ... Ignatius Piazza, was suddenly struck with a realization while he was lying on the floor of his living room. ... Today, his gun training school, Front Sight Firearms Training Institute, makes finding great gun training .
He's a chiropractor . I urge anyone thinking of sending him money to google his name and start reading from multiple sources , other than his .
www.ignatiuspiazza.com › about
About | Ignatius Piazza
Ignatius Piazza – From Chiropractor to Four Weapons Combat Master. ... Ignatius Piazza, was suddenly struck with a realization while he was lying on the floor of his living room. ... Today, his gun training school, Front Sight Firearms Training Institute, makes finding great gun training .
He's a chiropractor . I urge anyone thinking of sending him money to google his name and start reading from multiple sources , other than his .
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824 Posts
From what I've heard, Gunsite and Thunder Ranch are both very good places.
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It's a school run by Clint Smith. Clint Smith did two tours of duty in Vietnam with the Marine Corp Infantry and is a former Gunsite Academy instructor. He studied under the
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1,282 Posts
Iggy is a Doctor of Chiropractic AND a high-level Scientologist.
AKA
"Hot Garbage".
AKA
"Hot Garbage".
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Thanks for the heads up.
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1,740 Posts
Gunsite = Col Copper = cool but old school techniques
Sig Academy= Up to date, some good tactical stuff and lots of good competition stuff
Thunder Ranch = as mentioned above, current real world tactical, Self Defense training.
LE training avail, but no 1st hand knowledge about it
Not in any particular order above
Dr Iggy yeah not so much, I know a TT (Tactical Timmy) who went and came back with the same set of poor skills FWIW
Sig Academy= Up to date, some good tactical stuff and lots of good competition stuff
Thunder Ranch = as mentioned above, current real world tactical, Self Defense training.
LE training avail, but no 1st hand knowledge about it
Not in any particular order above
Dr Iggy yeah not so much, I know a TT (Tactical Timmy) who went and came back with the same set of poor skills FWIW
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I’ve been to the Site. Excellent training. I’m not sure of the current ownership but it has been owned by a succession of Navy Seals for a while and they often bring in serving Seals to help teach. My assumption is that they take leave to make a few extra bucks. Great ranges, great instructors. My experience is a bit dated though
I got tired of the “Penotseo Grande” email spam and filtered his a$$ out! Just a question B81. I don’t know all that much about Colonel Cooper, but did he actually do something to make him infamous? Not trying to be a wise guy. Just curious. I’m thinking D.B. Cooper is infamous.
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I meant well known, legendary. Don't know why I wrote infamous.
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Premiere? Not at long as Gunsite and Thunder Ranch are in-business.
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But is says premier on the Front Sight website.
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There is a lot more to LtCol Cooper than what is found in these links, but they are a start to understanding his impact on modern pistol-craft:
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2011/5/18/jeff-cooper-father-of-modern-pistol-shooting/
https://www.gunsite.com/about/
He authored a number of books that are very-much worth the read -- available on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Jeff-Cooper/e/B000APBQSU
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The old masters figured out a lot(most) that is still relevant today
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