Springfield Armory Four shot groups with EMP4 Update pg. 2

Discussion in 'General 1911 talk' started by oldshaky, Mar 26, 2019.

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  1. oldshaky

    oldshaky Well-Known Member

    55
    Feb 26, 2019
    I have a new EMP4 CCC with a little over 400 rounds through it. The first round out of all three
    magazines shoots low left from the last 4 rounds of the 5 shot group. At 10 yards with a rest
    I'll have a 4 shot group of 3/4" center to center with the first shot out of the magazine 1 1/2" away from the center of the group at about 8 o'clock, opening the group up to 2+ inches.
    The gun is factory stock. Does anyone know what might cause this?
     
  2. 41 Charlie

    41 Charlie Get off my lawn...

    Feb 4, 2014

  3. 41 Charlie

    41 Charlie Get off my lawn...

    Feb 4, 2014
    In all honesty, there are a lot of variables, like ammo type, bullet weight. You might be pushing the first round? Every gun shoots a little different from the next. I generally shoot better after I’ve settled down a little bit. At 10 yards, it doesn’t sound like too terrible of a group. But... pictures would certainly help.
     
    ZoidMeister likes this.
  4. ZoidMeister

    ZoidMeister Consider my signature line before replying . . . .

    Dec 4, 2014
    Your screen name might be your first clue . . .

    Oh yeah, @welcome.gif


    PCZoid-grips-final - 08.JPG
     
    cgff, oldshaky, Lou1 and 3 others like this.
  5. Bill O’Rights

    Bill O’Rights Member

    11
    Mar 20, 2018
    Hey Old Shakey!

    As has been stated, there are many variables.

    Most on this forum know more than I, but here’s my take on my own experiences with similar issues.

    First, it’s not unusual for the first round to shoot away from the rest.

    The first round stripped off the magazine is typically done with less speed and force, than the remainder, which are chambered by the semi-auto action. Apparently, this affects the chambering, or so some hypothesize, and ... consequently affects bullet travel.

    Sometimes, this issue corrects or mitigates itself over time as the weapon is broken in. In 400 rounds this should have happened already, for your EMP, so it’s almost certainly not a break in issue.

    Still, you might consider experimenting with how you operate the slide to chamber that first round.

    I went through a period wherein this was happening to me with pistols that had not exhibited this phenomenon in the past. In my case, the fix turned out to be in my grip. The recoil from the first round would apparently settle the gun in my hand better, such that subsequent rounds went to point of aim. It might be that double checkining your grip is warranted.

    I have an EMP 4in Carry Contour in 9mm. Being dimensionally smaller than most other 1911s, my natural grip required some adjustment at first, when I first got it. Mine is now a terrific shooter for me.

    Sometimes, when I haven’t shot for awhile or am shooting a different weapon, my first round will strike low and left. I attribute this, in my case, to the common flinch that right handed shooters often show. Something to check.

    So, for me, grip and flinching require frequent or constant minding. Jus’ sayin’.

    My carry choices usually vary from a Colt 1903 Pocket Hammerless in .32acp, EMP in 9mm, Colt LW Cdr .45 acp w A-1 MSH and a DW Valkyrie CCO in .45. More rarely, I carry one of 3 full size 1911s - a LB Premier II, Sig Nightmare and a full custom built on a Caspian “race ready” frame. They are all very different and require conscious adjustments in my grip.

    Most days before holstering, I double check my grip by pointing the (unloaded!) weapon at objects across the room and then, checking the sights to see if my pointing is on or off. If off, I adjust my grip. Then I dry fire a few times, making sure the sights don’t move off target.

    This process seems to help me and maybe it’ll help you.

    Keep us posted.
     
    razorbacker likes this.
  6. oldshaky

    oldshaky Well-Known Member

    55
    Feb 26, 2019
    Hey Zoid, thanks for the welcome. My screen name comes from what my wife called my
    Sportster after we got the Road King.
     
    Mike Meints, cgff and ZoidMeister like this.
  7. oldshaky

    oldshaky Well-Known Member

    55
    Feb 26, 2019
    Thanks for the suggestions. I do have a flinch when I try to run fast and I dry fire daily to try
    to correct it. Here I was shooting off sand bags and paying attention to my trigger press.
    Also, it does the same thing when my friend shoots it. He is a NRA certified handgun instructor
    and competed on a national level back in the day.
     
  8. Bill O’Rights

    Bill O’Rights Member

    11
    Mar 20, 2018
    Interesting.

    Two experienced shooters over a bag, pretty much eliminates grip and flinch.

    Have you tried loading the mags to one or two bullets less than full capacity? I don’t know if the tension level of that first round against the mag lips would make a difference or not.

    Could the lock-up be off slightly when the slide is manually placed in battery, as opposed to the auto-loading cyclic process which occurs after a round is fired?
     
  9. oldshaky

    oldshaky Well-Known Member

    55
    Feb 26, 2019
    I was just loading 5 rounds to shoot the groups.
     
  10. oldshaky

    oldshaky Well-Known Member

    55
    Feb 26, 2019
    IMG_0930.JPG Win. white box 115 gr.
     
    41 Charlie likes this.
  11. oldshaky

    oldshaky Well-Known Member

    55
    Feb 26, 2019
    IMG_0932.JPG Rem. 124 Golden Saber.
     
    41 Charlie likes this.
  12. oldshaky

    oldshaky Well-Known Member

    55
    Feb 26, 2019
    Fed. 124 HST IMG_0929.JPG IMG_0929.JPG
     
    41 Charlie likes this.
  13. oldshaky

    oldshaky Well-Known Member

    55
    Feb 26, 2019
  14. HOGRIDER

    HOGRIDER Well-Known Member

    261
    Dec 18, 2014
    Was very disappointed in my EMP4's initial accuracy.......ended up sending it back to SA. They tuned the trigger and replaced the barrel. Accuracy was somewhat improved, but still lacking for my standards.
    Decided to check the slide stop pin diameter along with lockup, and IMO the .197 MIM SS pin was a bit on the small side. Installed an EGW .200 SS, and definitely saw an improvement in groupings. Don't have any target pics, but another user also had very positive results doing the same upgrade.

    And, as others have stated, there will always be that particular ammo combination that will be the most accurate out of YOUR BARREL!
    :thumbs:
     
  15. oldshaky

    oldshaky Well-Known Member

    55
    Feb 26, 2019
    I read your reply in another post about the .200 SS and got my son to bring me a .200 gage pin
    from the shop today. I'll try it out tomorrow. Won't have a slide stop but I want to try it before
    I buy one.
     
    HOGRIDER likes this.
  16. oldshaky

    oldshaky Well-Known Member

    55
    Feb 26, 2019
    Back to the range today with the .200 pin. No change in accuracy or the first shot flyer.
    I think I'm going to see about sending it back to Springfield Armory.
    IMG_0935.JPG
     
  17. HOGRIDER

    HOGRIDER Well-Known Member

    261
    Dec 18, 2014
    Then yes, that would be my recommendation. Their service and turn around times are excellent.
    Request a test target be returned with your pistol.
    Good luck!
     
  18. oldshaky

    oldshaky Well-Known Member

    55
    Feb 26, 2019
    Thanks, will request a target. By the way, looks like a nice ride in your avatar.
     
    HOGRIDER likes this.
  19. David R

    David R Well-Known Member

    381
    Oct 7, 2018
    Had that problem with my RO Champion 9mm. It ended up I bought the proper size slide stop (.200) mine was .194-5. I also needed the next longer link.
    After that Its been great.

    David

    Sent from my SM-T900 using Tapatalk
     
    oldshaky likes this.
  20. HOGRIDER

    HOGRIDER Well-Known Member

    261
    Dec 18, 2014
    oldshaky:
    Yes, that was my favorite ride of a lifetime! 52k trouble-free miles. Unfortunately, had some vascular issues in my legs and Dr. took me off the bike for ~5 years.

    Got the vascular issues eventually fixed, but decided to replace the two wheels with the next best thing (IMO).......

    Dragon.png
     

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