Get your guns back. Bad blood

Discussion in 'General 1911 talk' started by mikemac, Oct 14, 2018.

  1. mikemac

    mikemac Well-Known Member Supporting Addict

    Apr 22, 2017
    I met a lady today, who owns a few guns. they were purchased with a permit to buy and registered to her. So she splits up with her boyfriend and he won't give her guns back. I told her to go to the police with the serial numbers and have them get them for her. This is where it is going to get complicated. She doesn't have the serial #'s. The police told her to go back to where she bought them and they would have the numbers. Well Gander mountain went out of business and Joe's bait had a computer failure. I said this is all bull, when you purchase a gun with a permit to buy, it is registered to the government through an FFL. If the police were coming to my house, they would have not trouble telling me how many guns I have. I told her maybe an FFL could help her. Also told her that she is responsible for those guns. I think I am right.?
    boatdoc, FWoo45 and UBOATDOC like this.
  2. Integrity Arms

    Integrity Arms 1911 Pistol Smith

    Mar 20, 2017
    Those should be registered to her through the states ATF office I believe.
    boatdoc and mikemac like this.

  3. sidewaysil80

    sidewaysil80 Well-Known Member Supporting Addict

    Jan 29, 2014
    ATF needs a serial number to initiate a trace. Even then it will only give them the last FFL who had possession, they then go to said FFL to see who bought it. At least thats how it works in the LE side of things.
    pcso13, Hardball, mikemac and 2 others like this.
  4. Integrity Arms

    Integrity Arms 1911 Pistol Smith

    Mar 20, 2017
    But, the FFL is only required to keep that information for 7 years correct? Doesn't those serial #s still get registered with the state, so they know where those firearms are? Or at the very least where they should be?
    mikemac likes this.
  5. TheCollector

    TheCollector Well-Known Member

    Aug 25, 2018
    Perhaps if she told the BF that she was going to the police with the serial numbers so they could visit him for retrieval, he may be more cooperative.
  6. sidewaysil80

    sidewaysil80 Well-Known Member Supporting Addict

    Jan 29, 2014
    Nope 20 years and hard copy is the law, turn over to ATF if closing shop before that. I THINK they ask FFL’s to keep them past 20yrs but can’t enforce it if they say no. As far as state registration/serial collection I think it’s only the commie states that do that, either way I don’t know how it works.
  7. straitR

    straitR Well-Known Member

    Nov 26, 2014
    Not sure how long ago she bought them, but the current ATF requirement is for FFL's to keep 4473's for 20 years.

    Reference -

    That said, if she bought them from Gander, and Gander went out of business, then those records would have been turned in to the ATF "Out of Business Record Center" or any local office.

    mikemac and Journeyman1234 like this.
  8. BBP

    BBP Enabler Sponsor

    Feb 1, 2014
    More like 20 years or forever if the ffl is manufacturer.

    ATF could have the ffl do a trace if they had the serial.

    ATF will have the records from Gander since they should have been turned in when they went out of business.

    If she can give the other dealer a narrow date range they can probably find the 4473.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    Steve Owens and mikemac like this.
  9. Integrity Arms

    Integrity Arms 1911 Pistol Smith

    Mar 20, 2017
    I know my FFL just has a 1 or a 3 I believe. And I thought he told me 7 years he has to keep the paperwork, I imagined with a 7 would be longer. But, that is just wat I heard. But, from what Mike is saying is Gander Mountain was the FFL on one and the other was some kind of Bait shop that had a computer crash. So, seems to me it should still be on file though somewhere yes? Oh nm I see you already answered that, Thank you sir. I will definitely know all this soon as I will be working on the 7 license as soon as variance goes through.
    mikemac likes this.
  10. FWoo45

    FWoo45 Well-Known Member

    Jan 13, 2017
    If she reported them stolen by him I bet they would go get them. That said even here in komifornia the government does a terrible job of tracking guns. I have a professional acquaintance who had his kimber stolen out of his work truck while we had dinner out of town. It was a bit fuzzy because while he had his ccw permit, the company he worked for didn't allow guns in company rigs. He called the cops, filed a report, and turned it into his insurance. Fast forward about five years and the FBI is knocking on his folks door. That was the last residence they had for him even though he'd been paying property taxes on his own home. Apparently the gun had been used in some sort of a shooting down in LA. He had to produce the insurance claim to clear himself. They couldn't find the records of it being reported stolen and tracked it through the ffl to him. Government efficiency at its finest.
    mikemac likes this.
  11. mikegalway

    mikegalway CEO of DILLIGAF industries Supporting Addict

    Feb 23, 2014
    A lot depends on the state in which she resides . In my state , Missouri , guns aren't registered . Store keeps 4473 form . She may think about threatening a call to the ATF , but who knows how volatile the situation could become . If he says they were a gift , you now have a he said - she said situation .
    mikemac likes this.
  12. fieldgrade

    fieldgrade resident crank

    Mar 13, 2017
    FFL required to keep paper record for 20 years.

    But no registration in my state. NC
  13. tarosean

    tarosean Well-Known Member

    Apr 7, 2013
    Not really, esp. for us "free" states. When a background check is done through the NICS system, the only thing they know is Long gun, Hand gun or Other.
    The 4473 will have the guns serial number on it. However, the FFL is only required to keep them for 20 years orrrrr until they go out of business, as in the case of Gander.. If/when they go out of business, then they are shipped to the BATF.
  14. Wheels No More

    Wheels No More Long gone

    May 12, 2015
    In for the outcome.
    Good luck to her, wish I had knowledge enough to help.
  15. mikemac

    mikemac Well-Known Member Supporting Addict

    Apr 22, 2017
    Thank you for everybody's input. She is going to call the ATF in St Paul MN. He doesn't want to give them back. a control thing, I guess. But those are guns. Makes a different to me.
  16. Shocker2000

    Shocker2000 Well-Known Member

    Apr 6, 2016
    In my state, it's 7 years for local law enforcement agency to keep the records - or longer if they care to. I don't think there is a requirement to destroy records older than 7 years.
    mikemac likes this.
  17. Cop_Out

    Cop_Out Pearl Pimp Supporting Addict

    Feb 3, 2017
    I'm new to this forum, and defer to everyone else here. Having said that, I offer you the following:

    As a cop I'm quite curious about the response she is getting from the local authorities. I'd go back to the police department and ask to speak with a Sargeant or lieutenant; It seems like there is some kind of disconnect.

    The contested property is a gun, not a pet gerbil. If the firearm is her legal responsibility she needs to get it back under her control. If a police supervisor reiterates the position of the subordinate then go to the regulating agency within that state (likely the same place that issues pistol permits), and if the state is of no assistance call the ATF.

    You can bet the cops will care who has control of that gun if it gets used in a crime. Just my .02
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2018
  18. mikemac

    mikemac Well-Known Member Supporting Addict

    Apr 22, 2017
    Cop_out. You said it right on the money. That's what told her. I think she is afraid of him, maybe.? I just met her and a friend of one of my boys.
  19. Babboonbobo

    Babboonbobo Avatar is back to my favorite things!

    Nov 18, 2014
    All the more reason for her to get them back!! Hate something to happen with one of her guns.
  20. mikemac

    mikemac Well-Known Member Supporting Addict

    Apr 22, 2017
    I will get after my youngest to push her. Thanks Bobo
    Babboonbobo likes this.

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