1911 Firearm Addicts banner

1 - 20 of 31 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,312 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I met a lady today, who owns a few guns. they were purchased with a permit to buy and registered to her. So she splits up with her boyfriend and he won't give her guns back. I told her to go to the police with the serial numbers and have them get them for her. This is where it is going to get complicated. She doesn't have the serial #'s. The police told her to go back to where she bought them and they would have the numbers. Well Gander mountain went out of business and Joe's bait had a computer failure. I said this is all bull, when you purchase a gun with a permit to buy, it is registered to the government through an FFL. If the police were coming to my house, they would have not trouble telling me how many guns I have. I told her maybe an FFL could help her. Also told her that she is responsible for those guns. I think I am right.?
 

·
1911 Pistol Smith
Joined
·
9,891 Posts
ATF needs a serial number to initiate a trace. Even then it will only give them the last FFL who had possession, they then go to said FFL to see who bought it. At least thats how it works in the LE side of things.
But, the FFL is only required to keep that information for 7 years correct? Doesn't those serial #s still get registered with the state, so they know where those firearms are? Or at the very least where they should be?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,074 Posts
Perhaps if she told the BF that she was going to the police with the serial numbers so they could visit him for retrieval, he may be more cooperative.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,023 Posts
But, the FFL is only required to keep that information for 7 years correct? Doesn't those serial #s still get registered with the state, so they know where those firearms are? Or at the very least where they should be?
Nope 20 years and hard copy is the law, turn over to ATF if closing shop before that. I THINK they ask FFL’s to keep them past 20yrs but can’t enforce it if they say no. As far as state registration/serial collection I think it’s only the commie states that do that, either way I don’t know how it works.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
157 Posts
But, the FFL is only required to keep that information for 7 years correct? Doesn't those serial #s still get registered with the state, so they know where those firearms are? Or at the very least where they should be?
Not sure how long ago she bought them, but the current ATF requirement is for FFL's to keep 4473's for 20 years.

Reference - https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/how-long-are-licensees-required-maintain-atf-forms-4473

That said, if she bought them from Gander, and Gander went out of business, then those records would have been turned in to the ATF "Out of Business Record Center" or any local office.

Reference- https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-chapter-14/download
 

·
Enabler
Joined
·
3,428 Posts
But, the FFL is only required to keep that information for 7 years correct? Doesn't those serial #s still get registered with the state, so they know where those firearms are? Or at the very least where they should be?
More like 20 years or forever if the ffl is manufacturer.

ATF could have the ffl do a trace if they had the serial.

ATF will have the records from Gander since they should have been turned in when they went out of business.

If she can give the other dealer a narrow date range they can probably find the 4473.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

·
1911 Pistol Smith
Joined
·
9,891 Posts
More like 20 years or forever if the ffl is manufacturer.

ATF could have the ffl do a trace if they had the serial.

ATF will have the records from Gander since they should have been turned in when they went out of business.

If she can give the other dealer a narrow date range they can probably find the 4473.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
I know my FFL just has a 1 or a 3 I believe. And I thought he told me 7 years he has to keep the paperwork, I imagined with a 7 would be longer. But, that is just wat I heard. But, from what Mike is saying is Gander Mountain was the FFL on one and the other was some kind of Bait shop that had a computer crash. So, seems to me it should still be on file though somewhere yes? Oh nm I see you already answered that, Thank you sir. I will definitely know all this soon as I will be working on the 7 license as soon as variance goes through.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,070 Posts
If she reported them stolen by him I bet they would go get them. That said even here in komifornia the government does a terrible job of tracking guns. I have a professional acquaintance who had his kimber stolen out of his work truck while we had dinner out of town. It was a bit fuzzy because while he had his ccw permit, the company he worked for didn't allow guns in company rigs. He called the cops, filed a report, and turned it into his insurance. Fast forward about five years and the FBI is knocking on his folks door. That was the last residence they had for him even though he'd been paying property taxes on his own home. Apparently the gun had been used in some sort of a shooting down in LA. He had to produce the insurance claim to clear himself. They couldn't find the records of it being reported stolen and tracked it through the ffl to him. Government efficiency at its finest.
 

·
CEO of DILLIGAF industries
Joined
·
8,484 Posts
A lot depends on the state in which she resides . In my state , Missouri , guns aren't registered . Store keeps 4473 form . She may think about threatening a call to the ATF , but who knows how volatile the situation could become . If he says they were a gift , you now have a he said - she said situation .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,878 Posts
I said this is all bull, when you purchase a gun with a permit to buy, it is registered to the government through an FFL.
Not really, esp. for us "free" states. When a background check is done through the NICS system, the only thing they know is Long gun, Hand gun or Other.
The 4473 will have the guns serial number on it. However, the FFL is only required to keep them for 20 years orrrrr until they go out of business, as in the case of Gander.. If/when they go out of business, then they are shipped to the BATF.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,312 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Thank you for everybody's input. She is going to call the ATF in St Paul MN. He doesn't want to give them back. a control thing, I guess. But those are guns. Makes a different to me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,431 Posts
I know my FFL just has a 1 or a 3 I believe. And I thought he told me 7 years he has to keep the paperwork, I imagined with a 7 would be longer. But, that is just wat I heard. But, from what Mike is saying is Gander Mountain was the FFL on one and the other was some kind of Bait shop that had a computer crash. So, seems to me it should still be on file though somewhere yes? Oh nm I see you already answered that, Thank you sir. I will definitely know all this soon as I will be working on the 7 license as soon as variance goes through.
In my state, it's 7 years for local law enforcement agency to keep the records - or longer if they care to. I don't think there is a requirement to destroy records older than 7 years.
 

·
Pearl Pimp
Joined
·
2,654 Posts
I'm new to this forum, and defer to everyone else here. Having said that, I offer you the following:

As a cop I'm quite curious about the response she is getting from the local authorities. I'd go back to the police department and ask to speak with a Sargeant or lieutenant; It seems like there is some kind of disconnect.

The contested property is a gun, not a pet gerbil. If the firearm is her legal responsibility she needs to get it back under her control. If a police supervisor reiterates the position of the subordinate then go to the regulating agency within that state (likely the same place that issues pistol permits), and if the state is of no assistance call the ATF.

You can bet the cops will care who has control of that gun if it gets used in a crime. Just my .02
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,312 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Cop_out. You said it right on the money. That's what told her. I think she is afraid of him, maybe.? I just met her and a friend of one of my boys.
 

·
Avatar is back to my favorite things!
Joined
·
9,776 Posts
Cop_out. You said it right on the money. That's what told her. I think she is afraid of him, maybe.? I just met her and a friend of one of my boys.
All the more reason for her to get them back!! Hate something to happen with one of her guns.
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
Top