Gift or Sale record keeping ?

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by hayseed1, Sep 27, 2020.

  1. hayseed1

    hayseed1 Member

    29
    Feb 6, 2020
    trying to figure out what is the best way of making out a receipt for a family member/transfer of ownership. If someone in the family is law enforcement and they get good discounts on some duty type firearms, would it be better for them to gift the firearm or sell it to the other family member for their records. immediate sale may look like a straw purchase but a gift would be a Christmas present .... does it matter ,, thoughts ?
     
  2. 5pt56

    5pt56 Well-Known Member

    319
    Dec 4, 2019
    [Redacted]
    @Slapshot has the best reply to this IMO.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2020

  3. M Yaworski

    M Yaworski Well-Known Member

    490
    Nov 16, 2016
  4. Slapshot

    Slapshot Well-Known Member

    Sep 6, 2017
    Why would you put yourself and the other party in a questionable position to save $100.00? Most likely nobody would ever question it unless the gun was used in a crime but it hardly seems worth it to me.
     
    Babboonbobo and 5pt56 like this.
  5. 5pt56

    5pt56 Well-Known Member

    319
    Dec 4, 2019
    I wouldn't generalize and assume most of us thought that was legal. It definitely wasn't because he didn't intend to buy the gun for himself.
    He was an idiot and his uncle was a bigger idiot....suspected of robbing a bank....:mad:
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2020
  6. DD_USMC

    DD_USMC Well-Known Member

    454
    May 23, 2014
    Straw purchase FYI-

    The ATF defines a straw purchase as “Buying a gun for someone who is prohibited by law from possessing one or for someone who does not want his or her name associated with the transaction is a “straw purchase.” If the purchase is for the purpose of deliberately avoiding filling out a 4473, then it is a straw purchase. But there is one notable and perfectly legal exception…

    The ATF has a single exemption that allows buying a gun for another person, and that is when it is a bona fide, actual gift.
     
  7. M Yaworski

    M Yaworski Well-Known Member

    490
    Nov 16, 2016
    I heard tell of guys who lived in Virginia and has friends in Maryland or vice versa who'd find guns in their home states that they knew a friend wanted. They'd buy it and they'd go to a gun shop in the friend's state and do a 4473. Never occurred that it was breaking the law. Figured that since checks were being done all around that is was legal.
     
  8. 5pt56

    5pt56 Well-Known Member

    319
    Dec 4, 2019
    Fixed my original post. Smarter move is to call the friend, have him pay for it over the phone and that FFL ship to his FFL. I live on the border of 2 states so I'm used to it I suppose. And if its a rifle or shotgun, it can still be purchased in the non-resident state.
     
  9. M Yaworski

    M Yaworski Well-Known Member

    490
    Nov 16, 2016
    Well, we know that now but in the 80s and 90s we didn't have the advantage of instantaneous consultation with experts on the interwebz.

    I also have a feeling that if they weren't trying to get Abramski for something else, they would have ignored his transgression. Now, they've set a precedent so we all have to tread lightly.

    It all depends on the meaning of "is."
     
  10. hayseed1

    hayseed1 Member

    29
    Feb 6, 2020
    ‘Is” is a crazy situation.... it looks like the issue with Abramski was that he had taken money before the purchase from an uncle.. maybe a difference without distinction. it does get confusing.
     
  11. 5pt56

    5pt56 Well-Known Member

    319
    Dec 4, 2019
    Well I suppose I need to thank my uncle again because I was aware of this in the 80s and 90s. But I understand your point and it is valid!

    And I agree on your Abramski points. It seems the uncle being suspected of bank robbery is what got eyes on in the first place.

    Ironic that he was doing his uncle a favor but his uncle felt the need to specify what the money was for in the check memo.
     
  12. Bender

    Bender Supporting Addict Supporting Addict

    Aug 15, 2011
    While this thought my skirt the gray line when considering ethics, it would not be a straw purchase.

    It would, certainly, be a misuse of a blue label discount, in the case of what Glock offers.
     
    hayseed1 likes this.
  13. M Yaworski

    M Yaworski Well-Known Member

    490
    Nov 16, 2016
    It may not fit the definition of a straw man buy but it is considered lying on a 4473.
     
  14. M Yaworski

    M Yaworski Well-Known Member

    490
    Nov 16, 2016
    In that case, I acknowledge that you were far wiser than I.

    A lot of people are habitual memo writers. Later on when the wife says, "Why'd you give John $400?" you can look at the memo and say, "That was for that illegal gun purchase."

    Before I got married my landlady was a very cute blond girl about my age. When I wrote my rent check I'd always put something like "Sexual favors" in the memo field.
     
  15. 5pt56

    5pt56 Well-Known Member

    319
    Dec 4, 2019
    I seriously doubt I was wiser than you sir. Just fortunate to be around some very savvy elders and I listened.

    Thats pure poetry on the rent check memos! Bravo! The big question is, did your sense humor get you anywhere with the land lady?
     
  16. Bender

    Bender Supporting Addict Supporting Addict

    Aug 15, 2011
    I didn’t say it wasn’t, I did address that it was an ethics issue, did I not?
     
  17. M Yaworski

    M Yaworski Well-Known Member

    490
    Nov 16, 2016
    Alas, no.
     
  18. M Yaworski

    M Yaworski Well-Known Member

    490
    Nov 16, 2016
    Yeah, but ethics issues don't usually land you in jail. Maybe it's my own loosey-goosey sense of ethics. I have no trouble using my employee discount to buy appliances for close friends or family.
     

You need 3 posts to add links to your posts! This is used to prevent spam.

Verification:
Draft saved Draft deleted