Hand fitting

I was just there at Wilson's couple weeks ago and asked that very question directly and was told that everything is hand fit. Not to say that machines aren't used, but it seems like you could call and ask detailed questions yourself, if you really want to know anything. They are super nice.

Personally, I think a machine could produce parts that fit better than a human with a file, sand paper and lapping compound could. You really think that when rails are oversized, the human is taking off the exact same material along the entire length of the rail with hand tools? Doubtful.

My machine fit Cabot is as good as any or better than my hand fit guns. It is smooth as silk.

All the AR companies are "hand fitted" to a degree.
The companies who require the most "hand fitting" usually don't make their own parts...the companies who design and make their own parts usually design them to require a minimal amount of work.

bladeandbarrel said:

All the AR companies are "hand fitted" to a degree.
The companies who require the most "hand fitting" usually don't make their own parts...the companies who design and make their own parts usually design them to require a minimal amount of work.

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Like most of your posts...This makes the most sense lol.... I love precision machining done properly, it is it's own brand of science, magic and art. To seek something completely hand fitted would mean having to accept and be okay with the imperfections and variations that would inevitably be contained in the final piece, just like any piece of art. I think everything is going to have parts that are machined and some things that need to be tweaked by hand, Im okay with whatever as long as the final product is beautiful and works as intended.

I recently saw a picture of a Wilsonite manually blending in a beavertail.
I figure it is because the CNCs are great at cutting straights or radiuses but the funky curves of the grip safety are not readily programmable.

I read in a 1950s Gun Digest that "modern machining technology would soon make double shotguns and double express rifles at affordable prices." Hasn't happened yet.

Wilson didn't invest millions in state-of-the-art CNC to spend a lot of time (and even more money) hammering and filing parts into place once it was no longer necessary; complete in-house control over all parts of a build affords that.

There's hand "final finishing" to arrive at what some shops rely more on pure handwork to achieve. Two ways to arrive at a similar destination.

Some call this production line work and drop in parts, and they mean it derogatively, but it's done at a much higher level of craft and resultant finished product compared to mass manufacturers.

I've got a second EDC X9 arriving tomorrow. I'm planning on swapping the slides over just to see if there is any difference in play.

Just because something is hand fitted, doesn't mean it's properly fitted. A good machinist can do some amazing things with modern tools.

Tight and right still requires major skills and an artist eye.I that's the juice.
Parity in form and fiction at a price point. Too many closed books here prove it.

When you source your parts from 10 different vendors/suppliers more hand fitting is absolutely required. Does that mean it’s better? Maybe in some instances but definitely not all.

WC designed and machines all their parts to work in conjunction to make a complete gun. Thus less hand fitting is necessary. But that does not mean less hand fitting equates to a less quality product.

Having owned both, I still only one of the two brands. In my opinion, WC just does it better and more consistent. But that also personal preference.

I understand why some prefer everything to be done by hand. But I prefer those that embrace the Technology.

B81 said:

Just because something is hand fitted, doesn't mean it's properly fitted. A good machinist can do some amazing things with modern tools.

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This....^^^^

Had an old machinist tell me that "he'd been doing this $hit for over 40 years" one time. I told him that just because you did something for a long time, it doesn't mean you were doing it correctly.

I think he wanted to take a swing at me, but I was almost twice his size.

Building a 1911 from the perspectives of function, reliability, and accuracy is not rocket science. It's attention to detail. Built/tuned many a pistol for A/M/GM class shooters who demanded dead nuts accuracy, reliability, and function.

The pretty stuff is art for art's sake. It also pays better.

I see and understand both ways. One thing that hasn't been brought up, is the real good hand fitters are a dying breed. We don't have the number of interested youngsters to follow the shoes of the best hand fitters.
CNC gets it there and they still get to play on their computers.

Still takes a high degree of skill to program, operate and maintain machinery to a level that will yield an exceptional product. The 'machine fit' parts at Wilson I can guarantee are better start to finish than Colt or Kimber. And of course there is more final finishing. But optimizing your manufacturing process is an art in itself. Quality doesn't always have to mean hand stoning a part.

I suspected this for sometime. Sooooo…………………. Prices of the high end companies should have come down a bit not gone higher and companies like Colt should be making a better fit gun. Slide frame fit for example

Optimizing is what's its all about. Its smart manufacturing. It does not mean CNC drop in parts, slap it together and put it in a box. That would be Rock Island 1911's.

Optimizing means, for example, if it takes 10 file strokes to fit a thumb safety, let's get the tolerances down to 3 file strokes. This is good for everybody. It reduces the monotony for the fitters who will be more likely to put out a better product.

This takes a lot of work by the CNC operators, more frequent tool changes, better QC of parts, etc. and the better, multi tool head machines are not cheap.

Nineteen-ElevenObsession said:

When you source your parts from 10 different vendors/suppliers more hand fitting is absolutely required. Does that mean it’s better? Maybe in some instances but definitely not all.

WC designed and machines all their parts to work in conjunction to make a complete gun. Thus less hand fitting is necessary. But that does not mean less hand fitting equates to a less quality product.

Having owned both, I still only one of the two brands. In my opinion, WC just does it better and more consistent. But that also personal preference.

I understand why some prefer everything to be done by hand. But I prefer those that embrace the Technology.

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Being "military aerospace", this comment must be made on the red text Only. Your statement may or may not be correct. For commercial firearms, makers required specification tolerances are not stringent enough to require IR parts through engineering, manufacturing requirements. It is all price point driven so the resources ($$$'s) required to manufacture a product like this is done all of the time. Military aerospace, manned aircraft are operated is in a much more dynamic, sophisticated and extreme environment that firearm's do not see.

Deerslayer6837 said:

Rob eluded to very close in house CNC tolerances replacing the hand work without naming any individual competitor

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The CNC takes away the bulk filing/excess material removal and makes it where a smith can just finish off the fit. It removes a lot of man hours of just filing bulk material.

The closer they start to a proper fit, the better off they are.... a few file strokes here and there hold you focus way better than knocking down a crap ton of steel by hand. The latter is mind numbing.

If people want guns fit entirely by hand, just send me your parts, a file, and a pile of cash. I'll do the whole thing by hand. No modern tooling used.

For an extra $10K, I'll even promise perfect results (but no promises on when the work will be completed). Payment in advance required.