[Snatch13]

The chart includes all benefits available in each state, not just unemployment, whether state or federally funded. Some benefits are life-long, depending on the qualifying requirements.

Rock bottom of the thread, sure. But it's also rock bottom for the middle class, which is closer to becoming extinct as each day passes. We (the middle class) may not be buying up the Top Tier customs, but we do buy up the Baers, Dan Wesson's, Wilson's, Nighthawk, Alchemy's, etc. and probably own springfields, glocks, smith and wessons, etc. for good measure. Those guns need to eat. We help keep the entire industry alive, because we represent the largest collective buying power. Once the middle class is gone, so is most of the industry. It may not happen overnight, but back to supply and demand. Once we can't afford the supply, demand will go down, and eventually the supply will erode completely because it won't be profitable to produce.

 

[Yoemen66]

Here's a start, more to come. I try to base my comments on fact, and typically state when it's my opinion.
View attachment 1183765

Yeah that is all kinds of garbage. Median Income in Texas is a tick over 40k per individual depending on where you live. Where I live its about 30k per individual and 60k even per household. They are comparing a single income earner to what an entire household could make in benefits...if they qualified. Also, unemployment is capped at $565 a week, but you get paid on a percentage basis. I bring home 65k a year. A good friend of mine makes about the same in a different field. He got laid off and was out of work during 2020. He got $326 a week in unemployment, and was taxed on it. Thankfully he wasn't on it long.

I previously lived around Houston and while I was only making 50k or so at the time, we still did fine with my single income and wife staying home with our daughter. In both situations I have gotten to work with and know families living on assistance, for various reasons. Opposite ends of the spectrum, and none of them were or are living like they are bringing in that kind of money in benefits trust me.

When I went completely deaf 7 or so years ago before I got the cochlear implant and could hear again, I was researching heavily what benefits I would have had if I lost my job because I would have been completely unable to do it as a deaf person. My 100% disability benefits would have paid me $400 a week based on a salary I was taking home 1200 a week.

Also, any chart that has Texas paying out more in benefits then New York, California, Michigan, DC, Maine, and New Mexico, while being just below Illinois makes me highly suspicious. Most of this stuff is based on cost of living, and while I know that has trended up in Texas from the past, we are still way cheaper than NY, Cali, Michigan, Maine, DC and Illinois. Plus, we routinely get berated for out lack of federal assistance programs anyway.

 

[Tenzoxed]

How many percent are 1911 up by?

 

[Merton]

I'm not sure. There was definitely extension after extension after extension. We still have people apply that clearly don't want the job or have any intention of interviewing just so they can claim they meet the "application " requirement in Ohio. Not sure about other states

My employer has given 3 raises in the last 18 months, and I certainly don't want to sound like I'm ungrateful or complaining, but eventhough my gross has increased significantly, my standard of living hasn't changed. I have a little more disposable income than I used to, but I definitely notice the money went further in 2017 than 2022.

Oh, I can't even believe what I saw in '20 and into '21. So many people that I know were laid off and the money they were given was insane, but they have all gone back to work long ago.

I was pretty insulated from all the financial stuff and in fact our property gained value, but the new house we intended to put on our home property in '20 was delayed and the prices are higher now. The dollar at the grocery store and elsewhere went further 4-5 years ago. That's a fact.

 

[Wildhorse]

Its impossible to tell people what to spend their money on, but those that complain tend to be the ones over leveraged or simply bought the wrong product. I do not care what commodity your talking about.
I agree with @gunguy123 that teir 1 builders will likely not dip (I personally limit this to 3-4 smiths) Take Burton, which I believe go new for around 16k if sources are accurate. You figure if Jason builds 5-8 guns a year, then how many people does it really take to keep those orders coming and build cost as is? (He wont be buying a yatcht anytime soon, even with those numbers, so dont think he is taking advantage of you.) Also, there are a lot of 1911 fans out there that do not belong to these Internet forums….A lot. The crazy rich will always be crazy rich and that will not change. So picture crazy rich guy taking his “f&@k you money friend” to shoot. Even though “f&@k you money friend” may not have a vast collection of guns or know what he is holding, Jason gets an order. Afterall, his wife just bought a 8k handbag and he has not balanced a check book in recent recollection (meaning 5-10 years or longer). It’s a long way of saying, this forum are not the guys pumping new orders into these books. The long backlog smiths like Ned and Rogers are in a tougher position. My guess is they are wanting to maintain a degree of fairness to their clients who have been on their books for a number of years, while at the same time dealing with back breaking overhead, retirement thoughts, and the overall increase in market value that they have a God given right to benefit from. If you are worried that a specific smith in your collection may go down in value, then you picked the wrong horse. (I have a handful of those in my stable as well). 02

 

[Yoemen66]

Here's a link to the entire paper if you need more facts, sources, and "light" reading

https://committeetounleashprosperity.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/Paying-Americans-Not-to-Work.pdf

Just for info the Committee to unleash prosperity is a think tank for ALEC. A corporate backed right wing lobbyist group. They are heavily funded by among others the billionaire Koch brothers.

Make of this what you will.

 

[Snatch13]

Yeah that is all kinds of garbage. Median Income in Texas is a tick over 40k per individual depending on where you live. Where I live its about 30k per individual and 60k even per household. They are comparing a single income earner to what an entire household could make in benefits...if they qualified. Also, unemployment is capped at $565 a week, but you get paid on a percentage basis. I bring home 65k a year. A good friend of mine makes about the same in a different field. He got laid off and was out of work during 2020. He got $326 a week in unemployment, and was taxed on it. Thankfully he wasn't on it long.

I previously lived around Houston and while I was only making 50k or so at the time, we still did fine with my single income and wife staying home with our daughter. In both situations I have gotten to work with and know families living on assistance, for various reasons. Opposite ends of the spectrum, and none of them were or are living like they are bringing in that kind of money in benefits trust me.

When I went completely deaf 7 or so years ago before I got the cochlear implant and could hear again, I was researching heavily what benefits I would have had if I lost my job because I would have been completely unable to do it as a deaf person. My 100% disability benefits would have paid me $400 a week based on a salary I was taking home 1200 a week.

Also, any chart that has Texas paying out more in benefits then New York, California, Michigan, DC, Maine, and New Mexico, while being just below Illinois makes me highly suspicious. Most of this stuff is based on cost of living, and while I know that has trended up in Texas from the past, we are still way cheaper than NY, Cali, Michigan, Maine, DC and Illinois. Plus, we routinely get berated for out lack of federal assistance programs anyway.

As stated earlier, it's based on averages. Not examples of one, which while I appreciate your situation, it's one situation, not an aggregate of thousands.

I know plenty of single income families that support four or more people. 4 was used as that is considered the average household. The whole point wasn't to compare what four people could make.

Conversely, I have also seen 3 bedroom homes become over run with 12 people who collectively pull all thier benefits and go to walmart on the first of the month in thier pajamas to fill up thier 6 shopping carts of free goods while the rest of us wait an hour for the checkout employee to process all thier benefit cards. I can assure you those people are living just as good if not better than those of us who wake up everyday and go to work to support them.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

Also, there are a lot of 1911 fans out there that do not belong to these Internet forums….A lot. The crazy rich will always be crazy rich and that will not change. So picture crazy rich guy taking his “f&@k you money friend” to shoot.

I mean, this is the only way to explain how Cabot Guns has stayed alive so long.

 

[Holladay]

Wait a minute what were we talking about again?

 

[Slapshot]

Wait a minute what were we talking about again?

Your favorite gun oil and why you like it.

 

[azguy1911]

Here's another good 2020 classified

SOLD - Ted Yost Signature Series "Pinnacle&quot...

Folks, every time I get a Ted Yost build I marvel at the beauty of it. Each seems prettier than the one before and it's taken me a couple of months to talk myself out of keeping it! This is a Feb 2020 build, Colt Series 70 “Pinnacle” Signature pistol, meaning it’s got just about every option...

www.1911addicts.com

 

[DevilDog61]

Values hopefully stay up, I will have a new Quantico .45 in April that I plan on selling immediately.
I'll be asking $3,900 with no wait. I was told the current wait time at ACW is now 12+ months.

 

[Saltlakeyankee357]

its pretty bad now...i remember at one point how high everything was used

 

[ZoidMeister]

I lose money on each and every gun I buy, trade, or sell . . . . . BUT I MAKE UP FOR IT IN VOLUME . . . !

Here's MY full custom 1911 . . .

Y'all needed me to step in here to bring a bit of sanity now, dintja . . .?

Z

 

[Merton]

In the big scheme of things, it seems as though semi-customs have gone down in value and are available at what would be considered "good" prices since '20. At the exact same time, on the exact same forum with relatively few members, the prices on full customs, especially those from legitimate top level smiths, have spiked. The classifieds that have been linked are compelling evidence of just that.

So........The Middle Class is taking it in the shorts and the rich are getting richer??? I think that the bottom line is that while we see this particular market that we all have in common ebb and flow as markets do, it is not representative of the economy as a whole.......or maybe IT IS?!?! If primers are eggs, HP38/TG/BE is gas and 9mm ammo is what toilet paper was in '20.......... I'm just going to start digging again as soon as the ground thaws(I'm kidding. I've been digging this entire time). The bunker(for the record, I take no losses on my custom Bunker) may need room for a chicken coop and a pair of dairy goats. I'm gonna have to upgrade the ventilation system.......Oh forget it. Some people like that s****y smell.

In all seriousness, I don't like what I see in a lot of ways, but these luxury items we deal in can only be so representative of the economy as a whole. I am thankful that I am happy with the guns I have currently because in a sale most of them would come up as a loss right now. I have one great example(and probably a few others) and it is my GI BC-17 Hellcat .45 Government Model. TRRK sold it around 10/21 and it had a price tag of $4995. I don't believe that the original Addict paid that full amount, but for the sake of putting up a number let's go with a $4500 original price. I bought it for less than that and it was unfired. I have put a few hundred rounds through it and it is in amazing condition and is just a great gun. If I needed to sell that gun, I would take an absolute bath. I accept that GI's are surprisingly discounted on the secondary market, but I believe that I would have to discount what was a $5k gun with all the upgrades and still in 98-99% condition to $3k or maybe even less to make a cash sale unless I got lucky and someone was looking for the exact gun I was pushing. A two digit Alchemy sold for under $3k less than two weeks ago and it even sat for a little while.

I wonder, is the market we are discussing flooded to some degree or is it a financial issue? I honestly believe that it is both. Many guns were pumped out while people had what may now be looked at as "money to burn". It is also worth mentioning that in '20, many had the extra money and idle time. Now that those guns are being sold secondhand it does dilute the market and that it is happening while many are tightening their wallets probably gives us a simple equation. Even if "tightening your wallet" means that you buy two $3-5k gun this year instead of three or four, that is $3-10k removed from this little market of ours. How many of us are trimming things up like that? It leads to more guns and less buyers and those equations were worked out long ago by someone high above my pay grade. Does that mean the world is ending? No, but it does mean that now is a great time to buy and a terrible time to sell for most of us, at least while considering what we paid and comparing it to what we get in return.

 

[Edgartwib]

Locally my LGS has new Tisas 1911's selling for $300+ tax out the door. They also have a like new Colt 1991a1 with box on special reduced to $600 now. Its wierd the same store has CMP 1911s starting at $2200. The only 1911s that seem to be moving are the Tisas.

 

[JiminAZ]

The semi-custom market is saturated with supply of both new and quality used examples. The commodity market (Glocks, Berettas, etc.) has plenty of supply too.

The true high end custom market will always be a bit short of supply. Prices may drift around, but supply will remain constrained. And even for those with money there is the currency of time involved in acquiring such guns.

Little known fact: during downturns high end goods do just fine. We normals do our thing getting by, while the rich keep consuming Louis Vitton etc. There is economic research to prove this. The rich remain rich.

I don't think true high end customs are in the Louis Vitton stratosphere in terms of the customers’ level of wealth. Still, I think there are some parallels to consider..

 

[NIU2009]

I think you have to look at our limited perspective of this board and maybe a few other places. This isn’t the only market for these guns, but it is the one place to go if you want to sell fairly quickly and get more than most shops will pay you. That still means taking a decent haircut on it depending on how quickly you want to move it. That’s true with almost any item. These guns may last forever, but many don’t value them that way as the Classifieds will show.

People could just not acquire these guns and turn around and sell them rather quickly. If you do and then complain about the prices they are fetching, well, that’s partly on you.

 

[simonp]

I think you have to look at our limited perspective of this board and maybe a few other places. This isn’t the only market for these guns, but it is the one place to go if you want to sell fairly quickly and get more than most shops will pay you. That still means taking a decent haircut on it depending on how quickly you want to move it. That’s true with almost any item. These guns may last forever, but many don’t value them that way as the Classifieds will show.

People could just not acquire these guns and turn around and sell them rather quickly. If you do and then complain about the prices they are fetching, well, that’s partly on you.

I am not so sure about this not being the only market, sure you could post them on Gunsamerica or Gunbroker and take your chances, frankly the odds are if you post them there that someone here will post a link in the bargain hunter or someone will come here asking questions about the guns. TOS doesnt (from what I remember and its been a long time since ive visited) have classifieds, LTW doesnt draw any traffic anymore so there is here...........

If someone is knowledgeable in 1911's then they will most likely know the big names (Burton, Rogers, Ned, Yost) but once you start going below that tier a lot of the knowledge of the makers and the drive buying their guns comes from addicts. There are sought after smiths on here that 98% of the 1911 community not on addicts have never heard of & if you try to sell it elsewhere........well all roads lead back to the addicts once more, definitely a double-edged sword.

One can also see that values are affected by the smith's participation on the forum as well, BEC guns were hot and demanding top dollar for some time then Lou stepped back from the Forum and those selling his guns in the classifieds can you tell you the story of how that effected his guns values. Same is true to an extent with Semi customs, a few years back GI was the big name, everyone wanted one, everyone was talking about them, they had an active rep on the forum - the rep changed companies, GI never replaced him on the forum and now you rarely see them mentioned here.

 

[wgilger]

I have bought some nice Wilson’s lately for good prices. I bought a CQB 5” .45 acp on GB for 1575.00. It was used and will be used even more when I have it. I am looking/waiting for a WC super grade commander in blue and will watch for deals. I am seeing a few new resales that are 10-6 years old and probably asking what they paid. I am seeing ACW resales that remain for sale. 3750-4,000. Wilson super grades in excellent shape are having trouble to sell for 4K.
Regarding the economy, I believe we will see a total collapse in the next 2 years. Biden and company will get caught holding the bag. However the republican Congress needs to do something to better our country.