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Interesting Article.

Discussion in '1911 Carry' started by limbkiller, Sep 12, 2011.

  1. Blayglock

    Blayglock Supporting Addict Supporting Addict

    Aug 18, 2011

  2. 50GI-Jess

    50GI-Jess Member

    497
    Aug 24, 2011
    Very interesting.
    I used to work in Mississippi at Mid-South Institute for Selfdefense Shooting in 96. There I saw a lot of video footage from various govermental agencies conserning guns killing people. That completely changed my mindset about the use/effect of guns for selfdefense. I have a lot of respect for that article.
     
  3. 50GI-Jess

    50GI-Jess Member

    497
    Aug 24, 2011
    Very interesting.
    I used to work in Mississippi at Mid-South Institute for Selfdefense Shooting in 96. There I saw a lot of video footage from various govermental agencies conserning guns killing people. That completely changed my mindset about the use/effect of guns for selfdefense. I have a lot of respect for that article.
     
  4. Blayglock

    Blayglock Supporting Addict Supporting Addict

    Aug 18, 2011
    What conclusions did you draw about what and how to carry Jess?
     
  5. 50GI-Jess

    50GI-Jess Member

    497
    Aug 24, 2011
    See thats the $64 K question!
    I concluded the actual type or caliber of the firearm comes second, compared to shot placement, how many and how fast. This combined with practice and the correct mindset to survive no matter what happens.
    Saying that, I still use "effective" calibers in my carry guns. I think a lot of folks out there, buying big bore handguns and rarely practice with them, actually have gotten them into a fake sense of security.
    Also, a lot of new CCW/gunowners, often times "outgun" themselfes. Imagine someone with little or no training at all, shooting a S&W mod.19 with 4"barrel loaded with 110 gr. JHP 357 mag. in a hallway in the dark. If they don't hit with the first shot, they can't hear or see anything for 30 sec. or more.
    My primary carry gun is a GI Mod.1 in 50 GI caliber loaded with 230 gr. CHP at 1000 f/s. It rides in a Safariland paddle holster mod.568. Secondary carry guns. Glock 19, Kel-tec. P3AT, S&W M0d.642, GI 1911 NN and Ruger Vaquero for the trails here in AR.
    The buttom line, is that I believe in practice and being prepared.
     
  6. Sir Guy

    Sir Guy Sharpening Ockham's Razor Supporting Addict

    Aug 20, 2011
    Good article. There's a lot of truth in it, and its concepts are in line with those I teach police academy trainees. A "lethal hit" might mean he has another four minutes of fight left in him. That is an eternity when you're in a struggle for your life.

    "Shoot to stop" isn't a semantic wink-and-a-grin; it's an important element of a lethal force encounter.

    Andy
     
  7. knedrgr

    knedrgr Low capacity, low tech...

    Aug 15, 2011
    Moving this to the Carry forum
     
  8. dgi

    dgi NRA Life Member Supporting Addict

    Sep 10, 2011
    looking forward to reading this at work!
     
  9. Blayglock

    Blayglock Supporting Addict Supporting Addict

    Aug 18, 2011
    Thanks for the response Jess. I've come to the same conclusion. As long as you are using a common service caliber with good ammunition I think the gear part of the equation goes like this:

    1. Shot placement is king
    2. Penetration is queen
    3. Reliability is paramount
    4. The best reload is the one you never have to make.

    I carry a 1911 all the time in the suburban area where I live and work. If I go into downtown Pittsburgh (or any other metro area) I carry my Glock 19. I also believe hardware is a much smaller part of the equation than mindset.
     
  10. 50GI-Jess

    50GI-Jess Member

    497
    Aug 24, 2011
    I was looking in some of my older books about theoretic knock down power of handgun calibers.
    I know something can be discussed to death, but it always strikes me, that the 125 JHP 357 mag. is listed as a better man stopper than the 230 gr. 45 ACP. I think that somehow, this statistic is because the 357 was used more often back then than compared to now.
    I'm no expert and all that stuff, but I choose the 45 ACP any day of the week for selfdefense. It's big fat and heavy, and easy to control being a low preassure cartridge.
     
  11. TSiWRX

    TSiWRX Member

    861
    Aug 21, 2011
    What's the target that he's using, in his video?
     
  12. CMG

    CMG Member

    835
    Aug 20, 2011
    Nothing really new, but one point that I think gets over-looked by so many is you really need to practice your draw and shooting on the move.

    I know lots of folks don't have access to a range that allows it, but it is much different shooting while moving than standing behind a counter.

    I'm lucky enough to be able to shoot in my back "yard", and I use the IDPA classifier as a weekly drill. All shot from concealment, but I practice shooting while moving laterally as well as front and back.
     
  13. limbkiller

    limbkiller Pulling my hair. Supporting Addict

    Aug 18, 2011
    I know that not everybody has access to private land to shoot on, but there are WMA's and National Forest land available to lots of people who dont take advantage of it. There you can shoot how you want. It's what I do.
     
  14. polizei1

    polizei1 It WAS Quack

    Aug 18, 2011
    No idea, but if you want something close get USPSA targets.

    I carry my EMP which is 9mm. I also believe shot placement is king, and second is how many rounds you can get on the target, which are accurate and effective. I also think that a LOT of people probably "over-gun" themselves with little or no training. Everyone wants to carry a .45 because everyone knows it's a 1-shot deal and they blow up tanks. Now I'm not saying all people that carry .45's think that. But I wouldn't be surprised if 50% of the people can't actually "control" them and shoot them fast and accurate.

    I don't have the time, nor the money or place to practice like I want to. What I do is shoot 2 USPSA matches a month. Not the best training, but I'm putting rounds down range with introduced stress and shooting/reloading on the move. It's a whole 'nother ballgame than just standing and shooting a paper target.
     
  15. TSiWRX

    TSiWRX Member

    861
    Aug 21, 2011
    I take classes - this summer, it's been pretty consistently about once a month ( occasionally twice a month :grin: ) - in order to get me out of the static range routine. I've started to focus exclusively on basic marksmanship, the very fundamentals, at the range. I really want to earnestly double my class schedule next summer. CMG, that's exactly what I've been trying to focus on.

    At this point in my training (I'm a total noob, Quack started me down this road this past November: prior to that, it was the once-a-year or so fun-day range-trip with friends, and I'd never owned a firearm...before I bought Don's XDm, the last time I'd fired a gun was back in late-2003 or early-2004), I think that paying for class time really benefits me in that I not only get to shoot while moving, behind/under/around barricades, in low-light, in adverse weather, etc., but I also get the stress introduced by the instructors as well as their careful eyes, to help me get better.


    ----


    Thanks. :smile:

    I favor anatomic targets (i.e. http://www.letargets.com/estylez_ps.aspx?searchmode=category&searchcatcontext=~010000~011100 ) and was just wondering about that particular printed cardboard target, which looks like something that I could easily set up at home, with my airsoft. :smile:
     
  16. 50GI-Jess

    50GI-Jess Member

    497
    Aug 24, 2011
    So as I was driving with a good friend to a shooting match, we started talking about this subject. Always a good way to kill time too.

    We pretty much concluded, that most criminals only think they know how to shoot. Maybe they learn these weird monkey methods in jail by fellow inmates, or cheap hollywood movies. Also often times their firearms awareness sucks. Lastly half of the time, they use borderline junk guns.

    I rather have a gangbanger shoot at me with a stolen 9mm, than Rob Leatham doing the same with a .22.

    I know! Nothing in life is set in stone, but this is to our advantage in a potential gunfight.
     
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