Just 'Say no to BarSto'

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by M5Fan, Jul 13, 2020.

  1. mikegalway

    mikegalway CEO of DILLIGAF industries Supporting Addict

    Feb 23, 2014
    In this social media world , bad service gets exposed quickly and to a greater amount of people than ever .
     
  2. Integrity Arms

    Integrity Arms 1911 Pistol Smith

    Mar 20, 2017
    We all miss the mark from time to time my friend but, I will say from my observation you hit the mark a whole helluva lot more than you miss it.. :p
     

  3. Integrity Arms

    Integrity Arms 1911 Pistol Smith

    Mar 20, 2017
    I do wish that Kart made some Stainless Steel barrels. I have fit mostly KKM and Kart and find them both to be very quality barrels, I will say however that the KKM barrels tend to require more machining and often a bunch more reaming. Maybe I can order them a little different as I might be bringing some of this on myself. But, I also don't see 1.5 to 2 hours to fit a barrel to be excessive.. Maybe I dilly dally too much though.. That's just me. Don't get me wrong I would like to be able to completely fit my barrels in 1.5 hours flat everytime, but I haven't been able to figure out how to work quite that fast yet.
     
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  4. Stentor

    Stentor NRA Life Member Supporting Addict

    575
    Sep 21, 2015
    I don't have a dog in this fight. Though, you didn't provide an accurate view/characterization of Bar-Sto's BBB rating (see below for explanation of "C" rating --->>> BBB has not received a sufficient volume of requests for information, nor has the BBB received any complaints on this firm to warrant the development of a report).
    Bar-Sto.png
     
  5. rmac

    rmac Well-Known Member Supporting Addict

    752
    Jan 26, 2016
    Just curious Steve as I haven’t talked to you since the Addicts Shoot last year but why do you think a barrel should be stainless?
     
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  6. wrmiller

    wrmiller The Tinker

    Oct 29, 2016
    So the 'C' rating was taken out of context (intentional or otherwise) to bolster a position? Sounds like something the MSM would do.
     
    colrhino likes this.
  7. wrmiller

    wrmiller The Tinker

    Oct 29, 2016
    Oh here we go...where's the popcorn. ;)
     
  8. pistolwretch

    pistolwretch Dremel jockey Supporting Addict

    Aug 26, 2011
    Fred Kart says
    "Stainless steel is good for kitchen ware".

    Paraphrased........
     
  9. Razer

    Razer On The Razers Edge Staff Member Admin Moderator Supporting Addict

    Jul 1, 2012
    Spot on.
     
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  10. rmac

    rmac Well-Known Member Supporting Addict

    752
    Jan 26, 2016
    Let me clarify a bit on the barrel material.
    I have stainless barrels by KKM, Schumann and Wilson and carbon steel barrels by Kart. The KKM is a bit more accurate with 185 grain jacketed bullets. The Kart with lead: either 180 or 200 grain SWC’s. The Schumann and Wilson lag behind.
    All extensively tested in a Ransom rest.
    Just curious why anyone thinks Fred should make a stainless barrel. He sells every barrel he makes and even since the beginning on Long Island has never had the need to advertise. A Kart barrel in stainless just would not be a Kart.
    As Fred says, “Stainless is good for pots and pans”.
    I would also add for KKM barrels.
     
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  11. wrmiller

    wrmiller The Tinker

    Oct 29, 2016
    Cute, but stainless for barrels, i.e., 416R is not good for kitchen ware. I have read lots of articles, dove into the metallurgy differences, etc., but I recently found this and it helped put things in perspective for me. Everyone is entitled to have a differing opinion of course. :)

    https://faxonfirearms.com/blog/4150-carbon-steel-vs-416r-stainless-which-is-right-for-me/
     
  12. mbacker_99

    mbacker_99 Well-Known Member

    264
    Jul 3, 2017
    All made from 1977 to 1984


    IMG_1913.JPG






    IMG_1914.JPG
     
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  13. wrmiller

    wrmiller The Tinker

    Oct 29, 2016
    You wouldn't be interested in letting one of those go would you? :)
     
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  14. mbacker_99

    mbacker_99 Well-Known Member

    264
    Jul 3, 2017

    KKM barrels with no chambers.....


    IMG_1868.JPG
     
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  15. Integrity Arms

    Integrity Arms 1911 Pistol Smith

    Mar 20, 2017
    I don't necessarily think they should be stainless, I get a lot of requests for stainless barrels, and up until just not too long ago, I was unable to find many Kart ramped barrels and have been building a lot of 38 super, 9mm and 9x23 caliber guns. The other thing is that KKM is pretty widely respected among many other builders that I respect. Then there is also the fact that the KKM barrels are a right hand twist, which is supposed to help aid the right handed shooter. I have had good luck with both. And fit both quite often. So, in short I don't think they have to be stainless. However they are good barrels, and I haven't noticed any detriment to the accuracy so, I am alright fitting or using either of them.. I fit a lot of Kart standard 45 barrels, but harder to locate the subcaliber in Kart.

    I will say I find the KKM barrels to be very accurate for the most part. If I do my part they definitely do theirs.. I have heard some say they believe the carbon steel barrels are superior and maintain their accuracy longer, but I'd have to wonder are we talking hundreds of thousands of rounds? Because most people don't shoot their guns like that..
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
  16. rmac

    rmac Well-Known Member Supporting Addict

    752
    Jan 26, 2016
    Thanks Steve, curiosity on my part about stainless.
    As far as longevity of various steels the KKM with the Marine Corps Load (185 grain Nosler JHP over 4.1 Vit in Winchester brass) will give great accuracy until around the 40-50K range.
    Kart barrels using H and G #68’s of the proper hardness usually have a drop off in accuracy at 70-100+K range.
    In the Action Pistol games using jacketed bullets I see most stainless barrels lose the rifling in the first half of the barrel in about 60K.
    Kart barrels seem to go 20K or so longer.
    Most Action Pistol jacketed bullets were Hornady XTP or HAP.
    Different bullet or jacket hardness or more hotly loaded ammo would no doubt alter these observations.
    Unless you are a Bullseye Competitor seeking the ultimate accuracy there really are no bad choices.
     
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  17. Integrity Arms

    Integrity Arms 1911 Pistol Smith

    Mar 20, 2017
    This is great information I appreciate your expertise on that... I am not much of a metallurgy guy but, I am trying to learn more as I go...
     
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  18. pistolwretch

    pistolwretch Dremel jockey Supporting Addict

    Aug 26, 2011
    chrome-moly forgings will always beat stainless bar stock for shear strength
     
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  19. Uncle Bob

    Uncle Bob Well-Known Member

    Sep 22, 2017
    It's actually Irv Jr. The real Irv Stone of BarSto passed away years ago. Irv Sr's products were exceptional. I used to go out to 29 Palms. Jr moved the business years ago.
     
    rmac likes this.
  20. Uncle Bob

    Uncle Bob Well-Known Member

    Sep 22, 2017

    Me and a friend referred another friend to BarSto for a barrel in his Sig 1911. He got it done, got it back and emailed us with a lot of questions. I called BarSto and talked to Jr and then one of his smiths. The Smith wasn't happy with what he heard about it and told me to have the guy send it back. The Smith somehow got taken out of the solution and after a "fashion" the pistol did get fixed, although it doesn't seem to be up to the standards of Irv Sr.'s work.

    I'd love to make Irv Sr.'s recoil buffer, but that would mean I'd have to deal with Jr.. Not happy about it, but I won't do that.
     
    rmac likes this.

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