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He carried a G17, or G22, depending on what the County was issuing at the time.
Knowledge sharing: What’s Your 1911/2011 Self Defense Ammo? Why did you choose it?
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My KC likes the 200gr HHP from @Master Gunworks. But I usually carry 230gr ball in my 45’s and WWB 115gr JHP in my 9mm
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1st choice in 9mm is the 147 gr HST's. Second would be Gold Dots in 124 +P.
I prefer the shooting characteristics of the 147 gr in 9mm compared to the 124 +P Gold Dots, but they're both reliable and have a good reputation.
I prefer the shooting characteristics of the 147 gr in 9mm compared to the 124 +P Gold Dots, but they're both reliable and have a good reputation.
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998 Posts
I own three G22’s that I owned (1) or was issued (2).
Last gun I was issued was a Gen5 17, sadly my favorite gun but didn’t get to purchase when I left LE. We were carrying 147 gr GD’s.
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980 Posts
+1 on outstanding function, impact, and accuracy. It seems that those two as well as Winchester Ranger are chosen most often by folks who responded; any of the LE lines from the top makers is a good choice.
…if you want to geek out with data keep reading. Otherwise, stop since you already know the answers and have selected your ammo.
Both Speer and Federal have had several LE wound ballistics workshops where different agencies could see them tested in an easy to compare manner. This is one example:
- There’s a nice tool that takes lots of testing data and shows them in a simple ’apples to apples’ Law Enforcement - Federal Premium LE, Speer LE, BLACKHAWK!, Eagle - Load Comparison
Other useful links for browsing are:
- Why Ballistics Gel Works and Caliber Arguments are Dumb - Lucky Gunner Lounge
- The anatomy of a gunshot and why your bullet choices matter
- More testing of ammo from Lucky Gunner from @Whiten: Handgun Self-Defense Ammunition - Ballistic Testing Data
-The original testing from Doctor Robert’s: Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo
45ACP +P - Liberty Ammunition
libertyammo.com
This is the ammo I mentioned--I LOVE this +P Liberty ammo--it's really hot, functions perfectly and really reduces total carry weight. Big time reccomendation!
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980 Posts
This and similar types of exotic ammo focuses only on energy, thus the very light and very fast projectile, ignoring penetration and expansion, both of which (and shot placement) are critical. At least if you accept the FBI’s view of what makes solid self defense ammunition based on actual shooting (prompted by the 1986 Miami shootout event https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout ). That’s one reason why folks prefer slower and heavier bullets such as 230gr. HST and 147gr. Gold Dot. You want to reach critical organs in less than ideal angles and with “stuff” in the way, for example an extended arm, or barriers ranging from clothing to windshield.45ACP +P - Liberty Ammunition
This is the ammo I mentioned--I LOVE this +P Liberty ammo--it's really hot, functions perfectly and really reduces total carry weight. Big time reccomendation!
Anyway, as I think @UBOATDOC said previously, with handgun ammo which is limited in power, most good ammunition will work if you disable the target with a brain or spine shot(s). It’s also worth calling out that a rifle with proper ammunition will have a lower probability of over penetration if you hit your target.That’s where high velocity—much higher velocity—comes into play. The links for Doctor Robert’s cover that too. It’s counter intuitive on first look and we’ll worth reading about.
Also, in my previous life wearing green, we learned that to stop a determined attacker, hitting their body with a round per second or so will override their ability to do anything because the nervous system is overwhelmed and there is only so much the brain can process. That last bit isn’t part of what I think as self defense mindset; only stopping the threat until the danger is over.
Happy Thanksgiving!
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I bought a variety of their bullets to test. My testing was delayed recently when I discovered a compound crack in the cast iron bullet trap that I have inside the shop. The gelatin should stop the bullets but over penetration would result in a hole in the wall which would allow the Minnesota winter inside and I pay dearly to keep it at bay. The low outside temps would skew results. I'll resume as soon as the new trap is built.
I've received notice from both Underwood and Lehigh of 20% off Thanksgiving sales!!
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980 Posts
Awesome! I look forward to seeing your write up and takeaways. You definitely want to keep our bone chilling MN fog and cold out.
For 9mm defensive ammo I exclusively load Federal HST 124gr +P in my handguns and HST 147gr in my pistol caliber short barrel suppressed carbines. From short barrel handguns and medium barrel carbines this ammo has demonstrated excellent expansion and moderately deep penetration. I wait until I can find and buy a 1,000 round case of the LE marked 50 round boxes,. A 1,000 round case will last me several years as I don’t train with it regularly, but do shoot up the numerous loaded magazines I keep on hand a couple times a year. This is fine defensive ammo, well tested and street proven. Also, in the aftermath of a defensive shooting, in the chance a overly aggressive anti-gun prosecutor wants to make hey, or even more likely, the shot person or their aggrieved family will file for civil damages, I think it important to be able to demonstrate that this is the exact same ammunition used by police forces all around the country and that there is nothing cruel, unusual, experimental or having any special feature that shows malicious intent in its use.
I would say much the same can be said for “police“ ammunition from Speer, Winchester and Hornady.
It may well turn out that the new all copper bullets from Lehigh, Barnes and others perform better in a wider range of shooting situations with various types of barriers. But I think I’ll wait for more “real world” street performance reports to roll in, and see it’s adoption by more police departments and/or state and federal agencies, before I load up my EDC with this stuff.
I would say much the same can be said for “police“ ammunition from Speer, Winchester and Hornady.
It may well turn out that the new all copper bullets from Lehigh, Barnes and others perform better in a wider range of shooting situations with various types of barriers. But I think I’ll wait for more “real world” street performance reports to roll in, and see it’s adoption by more police departments and/or state and federal agencies, before I load up my EDC with this stuff.
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68 Posts
I forgot to mention what I load in my defense firearms.
Most of my carry, especially in winter, is with a .45acp and in that I load the Speer 230 Gold Dot. Great track record and bullets are available for reloading so testing can be done at less expense than the premium load price for 20 rounds.
In one of the "house guns" and when I carry the 365XL 9mm it is usually loaded with the 147gr Federal Hydra-Shok. I seldom carry it but in the Micro 9 I load the 124 gr Federal Hydra-Shok. Lastly on the rare times that I carry a S&W 340 it has five rounds of Hornady Critical Defense.
Honorable mention: I carry a 1911 in either .45acp or 10mm when hiking in the woods. They are usually loaded with handloads using weight appropriate Hornady HAP or XTP.
Most of my carry, especially in winter, is with a .45acp and in that I load the Speer 230 Gold Dot. Great track record and bullets are available for reloading so testing can be done at less expense than the premium load price for 20 rounds.
In one of the "house guns" and when I carry the 365XL 9mm it is usually loaded with the 147gr Federal Hydra-Shok. I seldom carry it but in the Micro 9 I load the 124 gr Federal Hydra-Shok. Lastly on the rare times that I carry a S&W 340 it has five rounds of Hornady Critical Defense.
Honorable mention: I carry a 1911 in either .45acp or 10mm when hiking in the woods. They are usually loaded with handloads using weight appropriate Hornady HAP or XTP.
Honestly, I'm pretty happy with anything in .45 that is reliable in my guns that isn't ball. I don't mind ball in general because it feeds so well, but quality hollow points are better of course. People can bitch about ball ammo sucking but it still makes 2 holes in the guy even if small.
.45 HST is my #1 choice due to proven track record, feed reliability in all my guns, different calibers (nice rounded ogive helps a lot) AND it's available pretty easily at any time. I generally don't keep the same ammo in my mags for more than a year at the outside. Because I actually shoot through my carry ammo/anything in a magazine that is carried I don't want a round that is hard to locate later on.
That said, I still like Ranger Talon 230 the most as a .45 round. Expands well and the petals could do more than HST. But I run HST because I can get it easily.
230 GD are easy to get and work great if they feed
200 +p in Gold Dot & XTP both work well and I would have no problem carrying them in a steel frame/heavier or longer gun. They push a bit more than the 230s for me and accuracy suffers a bit.
in 9mm, all of these function reliably for me; I would not hesitate to carry the DPX/TAC PD type copper bullets if they functioned reliability, but I've never even shot a single round of them
these would be my choices
1. 147 HST standard pressure
2. 124 HST +p
3. 124 HST
4. 124 GD +p
5. 147 Ranger Talon (hard to find sometimes)
I want reliability above all in all me gear; guns, ammo, penetration with some expansion.
Situational awareness, tactics, shot placement rule the day.
.45 HST is my #1 choice due to proven track record, feed reliability in all my guns, different calibers (nice rounded ogive helps a lot) AND it's available pretty easily at any time. I generally don't keep the same ammo in my mags for more than a year at the outside. Because I actually shoot through my carry ammo/anything in a magazine that is carried I don't want a round that is hard to locate later on.
That said, I still like Ranger Talon 230 the most as a .45 round. Expands well and the petals could do more than HST. But I run HST because I can get it easily.
230 GD are easy to get and work great if they feed
200 +p in Gold Dot & XTP both work well and I would have no problem carrying them in a steel frame/heavier or longer gun. They push a bit more than the 230s for me and accuracy suffers a bit.
in 9mm, all of these function reliably for me; I would not hesitate to carry the DPX/TAC PD type copper bullets if they functioned reliability, but I've never even shot a single round of them
these would be my choices
1. 147 HST standard pressure
2. 124 HST +p
3. 124 HST
4. 124 GD +p
5. 147 Ranger Talon (hard to find sometimes)
I want reliability above all in all me gear; guns, ammo, penetration with some expansion.
Situational awareness, tactics, shot placement rule the day.
HST hands down first choice. GD and Ranger close second choice... in reality any good SD load will serve you well.
I spent a weekend shooting various premium SD loads out of my guns with me shooting... seems like a better choice then trusting somebody else shooting their guns to tell you what to shoot.
Media includes various clothing, wet phone books, water jugs, bails of insulation, home made ballistic gel, various barriers, etc.
Coditions included early morning, mid day and night for different temperatures and light condition.
You will immediately see what you and your gun prefers in terms of reliability to function, mussle blast, felt recoil, performance, etc. It just amazes me that people will carry a gun without testing various ammo that they may need to save your butt? You only have one life so if the situation arrives that you need to draw and fire, don't you want 100% trust in your setup? Ammunition is cheap, your life not so much.
I spent a weekend shooting various premium SD loads out of my guns with me shooting... seems like a better choice then trusting somebody else shooting their guns to tell you what to shoot.
Media includes various clothing, wet phone books, water jugs, bails of insulation, home made ballistic gel, various barriers, etc.
Coditions included early morning, mid day and night for different temperatures and light condition.
You will immediately see what you and your gun prefers in terms of reliability to function, mussle blast, felt recoil, performance, etc. It just amazes me that people will carry a gun without testing various ammo that they may need to save your butt? You only have one life so if the situation arrives that you need to draw and fire, don't you want 100% trust in your setup? Ammunition is cheap, your life not so much.
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11 Posts
Howdy. Been using the Speer .45+P 230gr ammo in steel pistols. Said pistols have the Wilson stainless "Bulletproof" short guide rods and their plastic buffers to lower shock, along with 18.5lb recoil springs. That pretty much does what needs doing, and one can just shoot light loads in practice.
Happy Thanksgiving, Dan.
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3,991 Posts
I go back and forth between Speer Gold Dot and Remington Golden Saber depending on what is available when I need more.
I have 1000’s of rounds down range with both ammo types and both are capable of near match grade accuracy and their ballistic data has been proven to be acceptable.
Many times I was able to shoot better groups with the GD or GS than I could get with dedicated match grade ammo like Gold Medal Match
I have 1000’s of rounds down range with both ammo types and both are capable of near match grade accuracy and their ballistic data has been proven to be acceptable.
Many times I was able to shoot better groups with the GD or GS than I could get with dedicated match grade ammo like Gold Medal Match
I do love the Lehigh Xtreme Defense bullets, loaded by Lehigh or Underwood (or by me!). These bullets rely on velocity, thus the light for caliber designs. 135 now for .45 ACP (used to be 120), 115 for 10mm. They flat out work! I use them in all of my carry/home defense pistols with complete confidence.
My second choice is always Speer Gold Dots (when one can find them!) with HST, & Golden Saber close behind. No matter what bullet you use, shot placement is still king and there are no magic bullets... but I believe the Lehigh's come closest!
Cheers,
crkckr
My second choice is always Speer Gold Dots (when one can find them!) with HST, & Golden Saber close behind. No matter what bullet you use, shot placement is still king and there are no magic bullets... but I believe the Lehigh's come closest!
Cheers,
crkckr
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68 Posts
And then we have a weekend as nice as this one. I've been out three days in a row and its looking good for Sat and maybe Sunday. I can even live with digging brass out of the snow!
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703 Posts
9mm & 40 124gr+P & 180gr Gold Dot.
.45 230gr HST+P
For the 9mm & 40 those are common LE carry rounds with good performance in real life situations. We're issued the 180 GD so I have no say in the matter.
For the .45 my Pro shoots those more accurately than about anything and a well known LE trainer I respect has mentioned it is known to "kill like the hammers of Hell" in LE defensive shootings.
If there were no more JHP rounds available, I'd go to semi-wadcutter .45's and not feel under-armed.
.45 230gr HST+P
For the 9mm & 40 those are common LE carry rounds with good performance in real life situations. We're issued the 180 GD so I have no say in the matter.
For the .45 my Pro shoots those more accurately than about anything and a well known LE trainer I respect has mentioned it is known to "kill like the hammers of Hell" in LE defensive shootings.
If there were no more JHP rounds available, I'd go to semi-wadcutter .45's and not feel under-armed.
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