[DWPW]

Hey all! I'm hoping to get some experience here, and hopefully put to bed an argument I've been having with myself for several years now.

Over the years, regardless of what 1911's I've owned and carried, I've always had some sort of "nightstand" pistol wearing both a pistol light and a MRDS. These were never 1911s because I really don't like railed 1911's, I like MRDS-equipped 1911's even less, and I wanted something Hi-Cap. This role has mostly been filled one configuration of Sig P320-RX.

Recently my "nightstand" guns have been sold, and I'm having a bit of an argument with myself about how to replace it. The fact is, I really enjoy using and training with an MRDS at the range, but I find I nearly always choose to NOT carry the MRDS guns, or remove the optic when I do want to carry it. In a home invasion sort of scenario, I think the MRDS would be very useful, and the light absolutely necessary.... but I really do wonder how much the red-dot would really come unto play in any sort of self-defense scenario outside the home. I also don't like the extra bulk and edges when carrying concealed. I'm aware of course that if I trained hard, or trained exclusively with any MRDS-equipped gun things would be different.... but the 1911 will always be by far my preferred carry gun.

So here's my question; for those of you who have both regular ole 1911's and an MRDS-equipped pistol, 1911 or whatever, do you find yourselves really wishing all your pistols being of one type or the other?

To put it another way; for a "nighstand" / home defense gun I can feel comfy occasionally carrying, should I buy a railed MRDS-equipped, Hi-Cap pistol, or a non-railed, no optic something or other to make everything I own & carry uniform? Contenders are, respectively; Walther PDP w/ optic cut, Staccato C2 DPO, Sig P226-RX Legion SAO / Staccato C2, Sig P229 Legion SAO, etc

Let me know what you guys think!


..... as always, related pics are always a joy!

 

[LimaCharlie]

The majority of my carry handguns have only iron sights. I have two with optics that I would choose to carry during civil disorder or a disaster when longer shots might be required.

 

[bnaples]

I typically carry with iron sights. My experience with a light and rds is that the dot often washes out and I have to resort to back up irons.

 

[Navy87Guy]

I don't really do "optics" on any of my pistols. My HD guns are a Walther PPQ (.45 ACP) and an HK45. They have a combo light/laser on them. They have night sights -- but I honestly don't expect them to ever come into play in an HD situation.

 

[simonp]

My current nightstand gun is a railed 1911 with iron sights. I am moving towards RDS on most of my carry guns as I get older and my eyes start to deteriorate. That being said I dont think that given the layout of my house that I would be taking a shot at a distance that I really need a RDS on a nightstand gun.

 

[DWPW]

The majority of my carry handguns have only iron sights. I have two with optics that I would choose to carry during civil disorder or a disaster when longer shots might be required.

What a great answer.... That's a big factor in all this... how realistic would it be to sight-picture a red dot in a real life self-defense or home invasion scenario, where by definition were working with 5-7 yards or less, probably a lot less.... but having one for the extreme situations you mentioned makes sense, especially since I'm one of the seemingly few people who consider widespread civil unrest a very real possibility (I was in Baltimore during the crazy riots a few years ago.... the one where the Mayor told the police to withdraw and just let them tire themselves out lol)...

I typically carry with iron sights. My experience with a light and rds is that the dot often washes out and I have to resort to back up irons.

You know that's interesting... I have never done any low-light training with an MRDS / weapon light combo... at least not with a pistol. Is red-dot washout a common thing in low-light / close quarters situations?

I'm starting to think a railed 2011 or even an SAO SIG with at least MRDS capability might be the way to go...

 

[LimaCharlie]

This is my, "I have to go to Portland" carry gun. It is an FN FNX-45 Tactical with a shake awake Holosun green dot.

 

[_Dan_]

I decided to transition to MRDS because my eyes are not as good as they used to be. It also seemed to make sense to have the same advantage of moving my rifles to various optics: I placed the red dot on two of my favorite guns and started training. I kept my home defense handgun on iron sights; rifle clearly had optics. Life was good.

I then played with different types of red dots to see which work best for me. It took work to always find the dot, something that initially drove me bananas. That and learning from Aaron Cowan of Sage Dynamics got me to a point where I am faster and more accurate with my red dots. All in all it was a good experience and now it’s rare for me not to carry MRDS.

As an aside, for me, the Holosun 508T with the EoTech like reticle works best, I assume because it’s similar to what I have been using for years on CQB rifles.

I hope this helps and that the journey makes you stronger and safer.

 

[mrmadd]

My opinion on nightstand guns (or any other gun you might carry or use in an emergency): keep it simple. It should be a gun you can load and shoot in the dark and have a ton of experience using. Don't count on anything battery-operated, like lights, to perform when you really need it. In 99% of bad scenarios, you aren't going to need more than a few rounds, so capacity really doesn't matter and you won't be reloading.

So, for me, a 1911 with iron sights is just about perfect.

 

[gunnie357]

You know that's interesting... I have never done any low-light training with an MRDS / weapon light combo... at least not with a pistol. Is red-dot washout a common thing in low-light / close quarters situations?

I'm starting to think a railed 2011 or even an SAO SIG with at least MRDS capability might be the way to go...

In my experience with them if properly adjusted it’s not an issue most of the time the problem is to properly adjust them it’ll be on the brighter side. As with anything though there’s no absolutes some will wash out worse then others and what your looking into can factor into that as well. Overall I’m a fan of MRDSs but there’s definitely pros and cons to everything.

 

[wrmiller]

In my experiences, it takes a lot of training with a rds to become really proficient. If a person is not willing (or too lazy) to put in the time to become proficient, and I mean to the point of instinctual/muscle memory, then don't bother. But then the same could be said for using pretty much any weapon, regardless of what's sitting on top of it. Just my opinion of course.

I'll say the same thing about using anything electronic. If you don't know what you're doing, get properly educated, or stay the hell away. Our military, and much of our LEOs uses a ton of electronics, and know how to properly use and take care of it. That's good enough for me. YMMV of course.

 

[gunnie357]

In my experiences, it takes a lot of training with a rds to become really proficient. If a person is not willing (or too lazy) to put in the time to become proficient, and I mean to the point of instinctual/muscle memory, then don't bother. But then the same could be said for using pretty much any weapon, regardless of what's sitting on top of it. Just my opinion of course.

I'll say the same thing about using anything electronic. If you don't know what you're doing, get properly educated, or stay the hell away. Our military, and much of our LEOs uses a ton of electronics, and know how to properly use and take care of it. That's good enough for me. YMMV of course.

110% if you won’t train with it there useless just like any weapon.

 

[scott1970]

I stayed with iron sights during my entire police career, and I have no interest in changing now for any handgun I actually rely on for anything more than target practice. Quality night sights have always served me well at work both in the dark outside and in less-than-ideal indoor environments. I'm not saying this is the correct choice for anyone else, but it works for me after over two decades of real-world use of handguns in a variety of encounters.

 

[ferrarif1fan]

Carry pistols are all 1911/2011 based with three white dot sights.

Nightstand pistol is a Beretta PX4 with Streamlight laser/light combo. Something goes bump in the night, light it up, put the red dot on the target, pull the smooth DA trigger.

 

[Amp Mangum]

Iron sights for me, at the distance most self defense encounters happen RDS don't offer an advantage.

 

[Amp Mangum]

 

[bnaples]

What a great answer.... That's a big factory in all this... how realistic would it be to sight-picture a red dot in a real life self-defense or home invasion scenario, where by definition were working with 5-7 yards or less, probably a lot less.... but having one for the extreme situations you mentioned makes sense, especially since I'm one of the seemingly few people who consider widespread civil unrest a very real possibility (I was in Baltimore during the crazy riots a few years ago.... the one where the Mayor told the police to withdraw and just let them tire themselves out lol)...



You know that's interesting... I have never done any low-light training with an MRDS / weapon light combo... at least not with a pistol. Is red-dot washout a common thing in low-light / close quarters situations?

I'm starting to think a railed 2011 or even an SAO SIG with at least MRDS capability might be the way to go...

I think you can get away with using a rds if it's set to a very bright setting before going to bed. But if you are using the Holosun and it's in its smart mode for brightness, it will definitely wash out because it reads the rooms brightness from above, not in front of the shooter. You can place the Holosun in manual mode though to override this issue. You just have to remember to do it.

 

[pscipio03]

You're going to get a lot of answers from both sides and someone will likely post a FUDD like Bill Wilson or Hackathorn saying RDS are worthless. Oh, there it is.
In any case, it's the same argument when the T1 and various Aimpoints came out for the AR market 20+ years ago. "Don't need dots, my irons work and the don't need [email protected]#[email protected]+#@*@ old man cough".
Best bet is for you to try it out yourself. Borrow someone's pistol with a RDS on it and try it yourself in a dark room. All my carry guns have optics and most have a Modlite attached. I have never once seen my dot wash out. And the Modlite throws a beam like a light saber.
To me, again to me, the RDS is way easier to find than an iron in dim to no light. It's easier to aim, more accurate and at this point I can target acquire much faster than irons. That's also because I do and still do dry fire practice and have taken dot classes.

 

[FWoo45]

Nightstand gat

Carry gats

As I got more comfortable with a dot, I’d like to put em on my carry guns too. I’m just not sure that I want to carve on the slides of some of these guns. The BEC would probably be the first to get one. Like magwells and ambi TSs, evolving opinions on the best carry/HD handgun aren’t a bad thing.

 

[bnaples]

To be clear...im a fan of a dot. You just have to set it properly before you go to bed. I do not have one on a 1911 yet though. Maybe I will cut my 9mm operator this year for one or build a pistol for this purpose.