[brotherrat]

I think my considerable time spent shooting RDS equipped guns has made me better at shooting iron sighted guns, for what it’s worth.
That said, it’s a sighting system. As soon as you start looking at it as a sighting system that happens to take batteries instead of a big lifestyle choice, things should start to fall into perspective. They’re as reliable as they’ve ever been and offer some distinct advantages.

 

[simonp]

I like Ken but............he goes on and on about if your not the 1% then a RDS is not for you, guess what if you shoot 200 rounds a year - you are going to be knee high in doo doo if you have to rely on your gun with iron sights too!

Also he, and others, keep talking about the majority of use being 5-7 yards, maybe. Maybe that data is out of date. I can think of probably half a dozen publicized situations where someone had to take a shot from 25 plus yards with a pistol to stop a BG from killing people, the kid in the mall earlier this year and that fellow with a Sig in the church in Texas spring to mind. Maybe you will never need to draw your gun, sure everyone hopes that the case, maybe if you do it will be 5 yards but if its 25 yards I think being prepared is better dont you?

Btw next time youre in a grocery store count how many feet from the start of a food aisle to the end, then think about that NY or NJ shooting this year in the grocery store, can you make a shot with iron sights from that distance and not miss and more importantly not hit someone else?

 

[simonp]

Nightstand gat
View attachment 1109160
Carry gats
View attachment 1109161
View attachment 1109162
View attachment 1109163
As I got more comfortable with a dot, I’d like to put em on my carry guns too. I’m just not sure that I want to carve on the slides of some of these guns. The BEC would probably be the first to get one. Like magwells and ambi TSs, evolving opinions on the best carry/HD handgun aren’t a bad thing.

Really nice selection of both Gats and watches my friend!

 

[SLG]

Either you are cool enough under pressure to see your sights, or you are not. The Dot does not change that.

 

[War-Buff]

I've never fired a handgun with an optic on it so I have no input on the subject. But, here is my night stand gun...45 ACP x 14+1.

 

[simonp]

Before anyone praises Ken too much let's not forget these days he says / promotes whatever someone with a checkbook tells him to. generally, Bill Wilson it seems.

I watch all the wilson youube videos, I enjoy them and there are some useful nuggets of information in there but there is also laughable stuff in them too. All those guns that supposedly he has shot over 20K rounds through that he shows off look unfired.

The main takeaway from the video should be, in my opinion, whatever you choose train with it!

 

[wrmiller]

Curious how many of these 'experts' have been in firefights and actually shot at/killed someone. How many? How recently/frequently? How many military specialists/top tier operators do we have here?

Asking for a friend.

 

[pscipio03]

The distance part is where he completely loses me. If the dot offers no advantage over irons at close distances, but DOES offer an advantage over irons at distances past 10m,,, why wouldn’t you want to hedge your bets and go for what offers shooters an edge at ALL distances?
And fully agree- I lost a lot of willingness to listen to Hackathorn when he became a paid schill for Bill Wilson. And because Bill hates red dots, well, Hack has to as well.
Every one of their ‘talks’ just reminds me of the grumpy old Muppets that sat up in the balcony. Only difference is instead of calling Fozzy’s jokes hack jobs, they’re spouting ridiculous nonsense like RDS are just marketing hype.
Nevermind that they’ve been on competition pistols for 30 years. Nevermind that LEAs are putting them on duty weapons. Nevermind that almost every manufacturer out there is making pistols at least with a red dot ready slide (note- WC fought this tooth and nail until very recently), and I can go on and on.
Just reminds me of the people who said the internet was a fad and no one needs more than 5 TV channels.

 

[Al414]

My thoughts are that dots on handguns are great for the range and if you’re proficient with them they could be great for carry too. In my situation I would view them as a negative if I added them to my hd set up. My domicile doesn’t seem to have large enough areas to be able to take advantage of using a dot.

 

[Dub]

The distance part is where he completely loses me. If the dot offers no advantage over irons at close distances, but DOES offer an advantage over irons at distances past 10m,,, why wouldn’t you want to hedge your bets and go for what offers shooters an edge at ALL distances?
And fully agree- I lost a lot of willingness to listen to Hackathorn when he became a paid schill for Bill Wilson. And because Bill hates red dots, well, Hack has to as well.
Every one of their ‘talks’ just reminds me of the grumpy old Muppets that sat up in the balcony. Only difference is instead of calling Fozzy’s jokes hack jobs, they’re spouting ridiculous nonsense like RDS are just marketing hype.
Nevermind that they’ve been on competition pistols for 30 years. Nevermind that LEAs are putting them on duty weapons. Nevermind that almost every manufacturer out there is making pistols at least with a red dot ready slide (note- WC fought this tooth and nail until very recently), and I can go on and on.
Just reminds me of the people who said the internet was a fad and no one needs more than 5 TV channels.

I remember those grumpy old Muppets.


Your comparison gad me laughing this morning. The dog just looked over at me with that look like, “What ?”

 

[Flyfisher66048]

I’ve got old guy eye that prevents me from focusing on the front sight on anything less than a 8 3/8s inch long barrel. Therefore, I prefer RDS on my CCW. I want the red dot sight to co-witness with the iron sights. I just shoot the iron sights, and am pleasantly surprised when the dot it there. They do not slow you down at close range, and improve your ability to make hits at longer ranges. With a properly configured handgun, there is no downside with a RDS co-witnessed with the iron sights.

When people started putting red dot sights on rifles, there were a group of people that bemoaned they weren’t needed. Now they are the standard sighting system for most(?) AR-15s. In the future red dot sights will become the standard sighting system on handguns as well. My thoughts.

 

[SLG]

I’ve got old guy eye that prevents me from focusing on the front sight on anything less than a 8 3/8s inch long barrel. Therefore, I prefer RDS on my CCW. I want the red dot sight to co-witness with the iron sights. I just shoot the iron sights, and am pleasantly surprised when the dot it there. They do not slow you down at close range, and improve your ability to make hits at longer ranges. With a properly configured handgun, there is no downside with a RDS co-witnessed with the iron sights.

When people started putting red dot sights on rifles, there were a group of people that bemoaned they weren’t needed. Now they are the standard sighting system for most(?) AR-15s. In the future red dot sights will become the standard sighting system on handguns as well. My thoughts.

There is a big difference between "this works for me (very subjective)" and "this works for everyone (objective fact)". When you say they don't slow you down, how fast are you? What distance? What target? Strong hand only? Weak handed?

 

[mrmadd]

My opinion, which no one asked for: I think a lot of these red dot responses are to the wrong questions. "Are red dot sights good?" is not the question. "Does the military use them?" is not the question.

Red dot sights are proven to allow a good shooter to acquire a target faster because you're not aligning two sights (front and rear); instead, you're just putting one dot on a target. They also can improve distance shooting for good shooters.

But none of that really applies to the question at hand.

They question was related to a very specific use case: the nightstand gun. That's the bump-in-the-night wake up call. It's dark, you're tired, you're scared, and the situation is unclear. Is there an intruder in the house, or did the dog just knock over the fish tank?

In that scenario, you can rule out distance shooting -- your longest shot is the depth of your biggest room. And fast target acquisition is important, but even if you live alone and don't have a dog, your top priority is target identification, not getting off a quick shot. That's a good way to kill your drunk girlfriend who stumbled into your house. Or your dog, who probably deserves it for knocking over the fish tank.

Your real priorities are (1) your ability to make the gun operational (getting it out of a locked drawer, loading it, etc), (2) target identification, and (3) the reliability and consistency of the gun if you have to pull the trigger. #1 and #2 are not gun-specific in this scenario; they're issues of training for a high-stress situation. #3 is the issue here.

So, does having a red dot sight on your nightstand gun make it more or less reliable and consistent? Well, it's battery operated, so that's one potential point of failure. Subtract a point for reliability (yes, it's unlikely, but the entire scenario is unlikely). But they're illuminated, and if you've practiced with a red dot sight in the dark, it could make you more consistent.

I'd conclude that it's a wash: red dot sights offer no advantage for a nightstand gun.

So it comes down to familiarity: If you train with them, then you should have them on your nightstand gun. If you don't, you definitely don't want them on your nightstand gun.

 

[LSU921]

My carry and bedside gun have red dots and lights. I’d rather have it and not need it I suppose than the other way around. The light would be more useful in a home invasion. 1000 lumens in the eyes should buy a second or two, and every one matters..

 

[azpoolguy]

I have found the proper dot brightness setting to be brighter than expected. This helps with a hand held light was well as when shooting from a poorly lit area into a well lit area with white back ground and targets.

I wish every one would train more. Low light, bright light, judgment shoots , force on force all change the way you look at carry gear and home defense tools.

Ive seen many many times in low light people missing left or right as the moved across the range and the available light changed what side of front sight was more illuminated. Three dot night sights also have issues in very low light as the dots are alot farther apart then what most are used to when shooting the same gun and the front post and rear notch are more visible.

Train in as many lighting, sound, light, flooring ,changing targets , swinging targets , and options as possible. Static range shooting is easy. One handed low light shooting of a swinging targets behind a no shoot through a door way starts to change things up a bit.

 

[Kevin Rohrer]

I suggest the OP buy one of each and makeup his own mind, which will happen anyway.