Nighthawk Drop in trigger kit?

Discussion in '1911 Gunsmithing' started by handforged, Jun 2, 2020.

  1. handforged

    handforged Limestone Canyon Leather and Tool Supporting Addict Sponsor

    638
    May 19, 2020
  2. Uncle Bob

    Uncle Bob Well-Known Member

    Sep 22, 2017
    I am not sure I'd want to try it since I'm so used to conventional 1911 components. There are plenty of alternatives from several sources. Many require knowledge of how to Smith them properly. Several of the guys from the Philipines who shot the Steel Challenge had a lot of luck with the Cylinder and Slide kits.
     
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  3. Integrity Arms

    Integrity Arms 1911 Pistol Smith

    Mar 20, 2017
  4. Uncle Bob

    Uncle Bob Well-Known Member

    Sep 22, 2017
    Read the thread Steve, no real answer.
     
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  5. ZoidMeister

    ZoidMeister Consider my signature line before replying . . . .

    Dec 4, 2014
    I tried one in Deadpool. It did what it advertised back then but I would have had issues fitting the vintage grip safety back into the gun. Might fit better with modern frames and parts.

    It looks like they've lighten the trigger pull significantly from when they first hit the market. It was a solid #4.5 IIRC. No adjustability. At #3.75 it begins to make more sense. @TheCollector probably still has the paperwork from the early shipped unit and can verify.

    The other "complaint" I heard was that the hammer itself was significantly narrower by design and looked funny. Not sure if the current models retain that or not, but I am guessing "yes" due to the frame required around the hammer

    Z



    1911 Trigger-01.JPG

    NH Trigger - 02.JPG

    NH Trigger - 04.JPG

    NH Trigger - 07.JPG

    NH Trigger - 10.JPG

    NH Trigger - 14.JPG

    NH Trigger - 15.JPG
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
  6. Integrity Arms

    Integrity Arms 1911 Pistol Smith

    Mar 20, 2017
    Well my consensus was as a gunsmith, I couldn't and wouldn't necessarily recommend it. I found the trigger to have a fair amount of creep in the gun that I dropped it in to, but I didn't really bother to adjust over or pretravel on the pistol.. It did as zoid said what it was advertised to do, it lightens an average production gun trigger and provides a smoother, lighter pull and functioned as it should. Imo it's a microwave trigger job, meets an immediate need if you have a really bad trigger, no means or knowledge to do a trigger job, and you don't want to wait on a quality trigger job from a Qualified Smith.. The design is pretty impressive, but a lot of technology is pretty impressive. A lot of thought and effort went into it and timken and several other manufacturers have been making contained trigger systems for years. It does work, is better than most production line gun triggers, and does fill a spot for those who want what they want and want it now type of thing lol.. Other than that. I still don't believe anything drop in takes the place of a quality done trigger job. The price is about that of a top notch trigger job on a pistol, but you end up only installing a contained unit into the pistol, Whereas a good quality trigger job involves much more than that, polishing of parts proper sear angle and hammer hook dimensions, proper mainspring tension, deburring and polishing of the hammer strut, hammer cup, trigger track, bow, adjustment of pre and over travel etc. So, while the price is equivalent your getting much more out of a quality action and trigger package.
     
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  7. Uncle Bob

    Uncle Bob Well-Known Member

    Sep 22, 2017
    Thanks for the input by someone that actually tried one. I think you know I wouldn't since we've talked on this exact issue. To give you a laugh, wait till you see what I post on "what did you shoot today?". The Champion has found ammo it really loves... shot from the holster concealed, I had on an old BDU jacket.
     
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  8. Uncle Bob

    Uncle Bob Well-Known Member

    Sep 22, 2017
    Well Zoid, I'll honestly say the drop in looks better than the pistol! ;)
     
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  9. Uncle Bob

    Uncle Bob Well-Known Member

    Sep 22, 2017
    I did the trigger on my 1911A1NM and without much fuss, got it to a very clean breaking 3lbs. For that pistol, it's pretty much where I wanted it. Only money invested was for a better sear spring.
     
  10. ZoidMeister

    ZoidMeister Consider my signature line before replying . . . .

    Dec 4, 2014

    Bob,

    That was my initial impression of the Gen1 trigger kit as well. It seemed to perform as advertised, but I could get the same results from an $8 Cylinder and Slide light pull sear spring.

    If they have reduced the pull to #3,5 lbs, it might be worth taking another look to see what other tweaks they have incorporated. I only had the first unit in my posession for about three hours before I shipped it out to Steve Owens. In retrospect, I would have liked to try it out on a more modern gun, a Springer 9mm that I own that already has a great trigger in it.

    When TheCollector sent it to me, my primary curiosity was to see how it would perform in Deadpool. My results with it are documented above.

    Below is what I was able to achieve on Deadpool by using standard trigger improvement practices and using ALL ORIGINAL PARTS that came with Deaddy.


    1911 Trigger-02.JPG


    I wouldn't mind giving the Nighthawk Gen2 trigger kit a second look. I am very curious to try it out on a couple modern guns. Not sure I would be willing to drop $300 to do so.

    Z
     
    zChambers likes this.
  11. Uncle Bob

    Uncle Bob Well-Known Member

    Sep 22, 2017
    I went Wilson

    Z the only thing changed on my 1911A1 is the sear spring and the mentally defective that built it, did the barrel lugs wrong and one broke. Afternoon of cussing and I cleared it. The folks at Brownells sent me a Storm Lake drop in to try since they just picked up the line. It's not a hand fitted Kart or BarSto, but still very good to 50 yards. The 100 yard shots are tougher.

    I suggest you write them and let them know you're an active member of this forum, you do review stuff including testing things in Deadpool. See if they'll let you test a Gen II thereby saving yourself some money. Won't hurt anyone to try it. I still write for various companies and I still occasionally get stuff to try. I will start doing videos for one in the near future... not looking forward to it.
     
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  12. ZoidMeister

    ZoidMeister Consider my signature line before replying . . . .

    Dec 4, 2014

    Food for thought. Not sure the world of shooters is ready for Prime Time Zoid.
     
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  13. Uncle Bob

    Uncle Bob Well-Known Member

    Sep 22, 2017
    Z one more note. Don't forget to tell them you've worked with and reported the results with the Gen I.

    It does help to build a relationship. I had one with the Sinclair folks when they were still there at Sinclair's and later Brownells. We swapped data and testing back and forth constantly. Got a lot of stuff to test/try on M1s and M14s since they never did. Still here and I still use that stuff regularly. Sadly, they're no longer at Brownells after the move.
     
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  14. Uncle Bob

    Uncle Bob Well-Known Member

    Sep 22, 2017
    Tone it down, and slowly build up to the real zoid. It'll work fine and people will enjoy it or at least enough to make it work. Heck I occasionally watch Hickcock45 for chuckles.
     
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  15. ZoidMeister

    ZoidMeister Consider my signature line before replying . . . .

    Dec 4, 2014
    That's the part I worry about . . . .


    Then there's always THIS guy . . . .


    PC Zoid.JPG





    Maybe a series, "Reports from the Bench of Bubba Smif?"

    Oh the liability of it all . . . .

    Something to think about. If only I had a time accumulator . . . . .

    Z
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
    Uncle Bob, gps man and TheCollector like this.
  16. handforged

    handforged Limestone Canyon Leather and Tool Supporting Addict Sponsor

    638
    May 19, 2020
    Thanks guys, I wasn't going to buy one either. Perfectly capable of a trigger job here at the shop. I just hadn't heard anything about it and thought I might ask. 300 is a little steep but thought I might be missing something there.
     
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  17. wrmiller

    wrmiller The Tinker

    Oct 29, 2016
    I've not played with one, but my initial reaction after seeing pics of it, was 'why did they thin the hammer'? Way back when, Bob and I used to thin regular hammers on the surface grinder to keep them from hitting/scraping the slide.

    But because this design already has a narrowed hammer (because of the assy plates), there is no need to narrow it further. Just one of life's curiosities I guess.
     
    ZoidMeister likes this.
  18. TheCollector

    TheCollector Well-Known Member

    Aug 25, 2018
    I did write to NH and suggest that they use a more traditional width hammer for aesthetics and simply narrow the portion that needed to fit within the unit.

    I imagine another machining step in the hammer fabrication process was deemed too costly to be worth it......... unfortunately for them.. or not.. I won't buy any more units simply because I don't like the look of the "pencil neck" hammer.
     
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  19. wrmiller

    wrmiller The Tinker

    Oct 29, 2016
    Looks aside, how did the assy function in your opinion?
     

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