1911 Firearm Addicts banner

Best overall quality AR

  • BCM

    Votes: 14 25.9%
  • Noveske

    Votes: 22 40.7%
  • LWRC

    Votes: 18 33.3%
101 - 120 of 132 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
990 Posts
I don’t trust LWRC and wouldn’t suggest them. I think of them as range toys and gimmicky (M6A2 CQB was issued and serviced 15 of them as armorer). Lots of small parts breakage/replacing, bolts were shearing lugs at as low as 6k rounds, and occasionally the spring cup for the piston spring would break leading to piston failure. Again, I Don’t trust for duty/SHTF use.

I you want something to plink with and mess around with, LWRC will be fine, same for BCM, Daniel Defense, and the rest of your mid tier and below guns.

For a legit duty/self defense gun (in no order):
LMT
Colt 6920
Noveske
Geissele
KAC
FN15

The Geissele and Noveske are the only ones that list don’t have .mil experience or r&d, but the quality of both is uncontested. It’s no secret I love the super duty rifle, but to reiterate...I think it’s the best production AR on the market right now. They took everything that made Knights the most advanced DI rifle, did it better, and then added better components/features...at a cheaper price point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
296 Posts
I don’t trust LWRC and wouldn’t suggest them. I think of them as range toys and gimmicky (M6A2 CQB was issued and serviced 15 of them as armorer). Lots of small parts breakage/replacing, bolts were shearing lugs at as low as 6k rounds, and occasionally the spring cup for the piston spring would break leading to piston failure. Again, I Don’t trust for duty/SHTF use.

I you want something to plink with and mess around with, LWRC will be fine, same for BCM, Daniel Defense, and the rest of your mid tier and below guns.

For a legit duty/self defense gun (in no order):
LMT
Colt 6920
Noveske
Geissele
KAC
FN15

The Geissele and Noveske are the only ones that list don’t have .mil experience or r&d, but the quality of both is uncontested. It’s no secret I love the super duty rifle, but to reiterate...I think it’s the best production AR on the market right now. They took everything that made Knights the most advanced DI rifle, did it better, and then added better components/features...at a cheaper price point.
G rifles are getting close to KAC pricing now. And two of the biggest engineering changes that people give KAC credit for are the gas block and bolt lugs. I know G rifles have an altered can pin travel path but am unaware of anything that they did to compete with KAC there. Many people also think the URX4 is the current pinnacle of handguards too. Plus buying a factory KAC will get you an ambi lower.


Also on Noveske, they may still be considered good to go but I don’t know what anyone would pay their pricing. It’s mostly for aesthetics at this point and after I had defective chrome lining in one of their uppers, they replaced it with the gassiest barrel I’ve ever shot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
26,526 Posts
LMT has an enhanced bcg that is a wonderful piece. Bolt life is expected to be that of a Knights bolt. The material used as well as the stress relieving design is a next step
 

·
Sapientiae Timor Domini Initium
Joined
·
1,286 Posts
I don’t trust LWRC and wouldn’t suggest them. I think of them as range toys and gimmicky (M6A2 CQB was issued and serviced 15 of them as armorer). Lots of small parts breakage/replacing, bolts were shearing lugs at as low as 6k rounds, and occasionally the spring cup for the piston spring would break leading to piston failure. Again, I Don’t trust for duty/SHTF use.

I you want something to plink with and mess around with, LWRC will be fine, same for BCM, Daniel Defense, and the rest of your mid tier and below guns.

For a legit duty/self defense gun (in no order):
LMT
Colt 6920
Noveske
Geissele
KAC
FN15

The Geissele and Noveske are the only ones that list don’t have .mil experience or r&d, but the quality of both is uncontested. It’s no secret I love the super duty rifle, but to reiterate...I think it’s the best production AR on the market right now. They took everything that made Knights the most advanced DI rifle, did it better, and then added better components/features...at a cheaper price point.
Have you had to service a LWRC DI yet? I would be interested, even though it's too late for me to say "uh oh".

What about the parts which make it ambidextrous? Seen any issues with those?

The friends I have who own the piston have not shorn lugs or had any issues with the spring cup yet, but the day is still young.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
990 Posts
G rifles are getting close to KAC pricing now. And two of the biggest engineering changes that people give KAC credit for are the gas block and bolt lugs. I know G rifles have an altered can pin travel path but am unaware of anything that they did to compete with KAC there.
Yep, they sure did and then some. Rather then a cast bolt, they forge them out of c158 steel. This increases lifespan of the lugs just the like the KAC E3 bolts rounded lugs. The whole bcg features their whiz bang coating to give it a much harder surface and less porous as well. Also the carrier has longer rails to prevent tilt and like you mention...the cam travel.

the gas block, while not a flared fitting like KAC, it’s pinned in place and features an index pin as well for alignments sake as well as adds an extra layer of security. They use a longer than mid length gas system to shorten dwell time and decrease fouling/wear.

I don’t see how they’re getting close in price...black Geissele super duty is still $800 cheaper then knights sr16 mod 2. Regardless of that savings in the Geissele you also get (arguably) a better trigger, ambi charging handle w/gas deflection, better furniture, better ambi safety, you get an H2 buffer as opposed to carbine buffer with Knights, AND the warcomp is superior to the knights flash hider in terms of recoil and muzzle climb. Yeah it doesn’t have ambi mag/bolt release, but those aren’t important to me. Even if they were, I’d prefer the above enhancements over them anyway.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
990 Posts
Have you had to service a LWRC DI yet? I would be interested, even though it's too late for me to say "uh oh".

What about the parts which make it ambidextrous? Seen any issues with those?

The friends I have who own the piston have not shorn lugs or had any issues with the spring cup yet, but the day is still young.
Earliest we saw broken lug was at 6k(ish) rounds. Most were in the high sevens/low 8’s. So unless your friends are near there, I wouldn’t worry or expect it. I never touched the lwrc DI guns. Patrol officers had pws 16” guns but they were a disaster and they switched to Daniel Defense Mk18’s. Both of those came after we had the m6’s on tac and I’ve since left for another agency. However they run the DD mk18 now across the board.
 

·
shooter of guns, petter of dogs
Joined
·
260 Posts
I know people are mentioning Geissele rifles in this list. Correct me if I’m wrong but don’t their 2125 dollar super duty rifles come with their low grade 100 dollar trigger and a forged rather than billet lower? For 2k plus I would think they would include their top tier trigger and a billet lower. And no iron sights? Also their finishing process that needs a disclaimer to explain the blemishes it highlights on their uppers and lowers. Just my opinion.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
990 Posts
I know people are mentioning Geissele rifles in this list. Correct me if I’m wrong but don’t their 2125 dollar super duty rifles come with their low grade 100 dollar trigger and a forged rather than billet lower? For 2k plus I would think they would include their top tier trigger and a billet lower. And no iron sights? Also their finishing process that needs a disclaimer to explain the blemishes it highlights on their uppers and lowers. Just my opinion.
Well you are wrong, the black version costs $1875 and comes with a limited version of their flagship trigger the SSA-E. Furthermore, billet lowers are a gimmick...they weigh more and aren’t as strong as forged lowers. Hence none of the serious/duty grade manufacturers use them.

Why don’t you pick a rifle that you think is better and I’d be happy to discuss their merits and compare them.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
990 Posts
Colt (assuming you can find one) uses a carbine gas system on their 16" barrels. This causes an increase in dwell time. As a result the bolt carrier is exposed to more gas and subsequently there is a sharper recoil impulse, more fouling, and accelerated parts wear. A mid-length gas system or especially the proprietary gas system length used by Knights Armament and Geissele DECREASE dwell time and provide a weaker recoil impulse but more importantly less fouling and less stress on components.

Furthermore Colt and most manufacturers that I'm aware of are casting their bolts out of C158 steel. Geissele's use a purer C158+ steel (I'm no metallurgist, maybe they can explain better) but regardless it's FORGED. As a result (just like with Knights E3 bolt lugs), they are stronger and last longer. This is a major concern as a sheared lug near the extractor claw is the most common bolt failure (next to of course a worn extractor).

Those two enhancements alone produce a longer lasting, cleaner firing, and softer shooting platform then a standard Colt. Additions like the braided wire recoil spring and heavier buffer also contribute to a longer service life and further soften the recoil impulse.

As far as ad ons go, you gain an ambidextrous safety and charging handle, one of the greatest triggers for the ar15, a more usable bolt catch/release. Some colts come with free floated hand guards but the Geissele ones are pretty much the standard and they come machined with a notch to mate to the upper. This serves as a anti-rotation tab but also ensures a specific and precise fit for return to zero purposes for lasers and front sights (if noticeable).

I carried a Colt on four deployments and trust them. They are clearly the standard in which all other ar's are judged when it comes to reliability and performance. However, in this instance, they were simply surpassed by technological innovation and manufacturing.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
26,526 Posts
Damned if all this SuperDuty talk isn’t wanting me to take a closer look at them.

seems this “top of the line trigger” is an SSA-E with a trigger shoe that is not flat, but not of the standard radii.

Shoe is said to be slightly wider as well
 

·
Sapientiae Timor Domini Initium
Joined
·
1,286 Posts
Back in the day, all I was issued were M16s with 20 inch barrels. Dwell time was not a consideration of course.

The only Colt carbine I have shot is my SOCOM, and it does not have more than a 1000 rounds through it, nowhere near enough to inflict parts failure.

I am looking forward to seeing how the LWRC DI holds up over the years.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
292 Posts
Damned if all this SuperDuty talk isn’t wanting me to take a closer look at them.

seems this “top of the line trigger” is an SSA-E with a trigger shoe that is not flat, but not of the standard radii.

Shoe is said to be slightly wider as well
I think the shoe is about the same size as the LaRue and I gotta tell ya, I like it A LOT! I get all the performance I need/desire out of the LaRue and it's about half the cost. You should try one. If you're ever around the Space Coast hit me up. Happy to let you try mine. For the ROI the LaRue floats my boat. AR's like 1911's after a certain point, come down to personal preferences.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
468 Posts
Damned if all this SuperDuty talk isn’t wanting me to take a closer look at them.

seems this “top of the line trigger” is an SSA-E with a trigger shoe that is not flat, but not of the standard radii.

Shoe is said to be slightly wider as well
I don't think you'd regret it! I love it - it is about half a pound heavier than a KAC SR-15 16".
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
26,526 Posts
I don’t like the Larue trigger at all. The shape of the trigger shoe is what drives me away. Just feels wonky.

I did actually order a Super Duty, one of the 16” DDC models.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
512 Posts
How's is the fit between upper and lower on yours?

I have purchased 3 (Luna black since $250 for special colors is not worth it to me) and currently own 2 that are still in the sealed bag. All 3 of mine have significant wobble between upper and lower. My Colts, BCMs, Noveske, and LaRue's have less play (Noveske and LaRue have zero play). Geisselle offers a lot of rifle if you get the 35% off like I did on all mine, but IMO there is no way they are worth a full price for the fit and finish quality that is a far lower standard than Geissele was known for. "Super Precision" doesn't apply to their uppers and lowers.........mil spec fit at the best for the several I have seen. They would have a "home run" if they had tightened their specs on the upper/lower fit since the other components are top quality parts. I know the slop in upper/lower doesn't affect accuracy, but a AR pushing a $2k price should have better fit.

Please let us know how your DDC shoots.

I voted Noveske mostly due to their barrel quality. John's work was some of the best....may he R.I.P.
 
101 - 120 of 132 Posts
Top