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Preferred Grain for Training Round

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My favorite cast bullets for 9mm are 122 gr truncated cone flat point (TCFP) made by a local bullet caster. He also makes 147 gr TCFP that several of the guys I shoot with in IDPA use. One of them uses that same bullet in his .38 spl loads, and they do shoot very well.
 

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I’ve been shooting and reloading 115 gr for as long as I’ve been shooting 9mm. I also don’t care about matching headstamps on the brass, as it seems to shoot the same either way for me. I don’t believe that it makes any difference at typical handgun ranges. Some 50 yard bullseye shooters may take exception to that; so I’d certainly defer to them in such instances. But for us mere mortals...
Bullseye shooting has nothing to do with loading ammo for accuracy. 95% of the time I shoot coming out of the holster, but I still want to know what my ammo can and will do. I've shot IPSC, IDPA for a lot of years starting in the 70s. Head shots are 25 yards aren't Bullseye but they still count for score

First thing I noticed when loading 9mm was a LOT of standard deviation, bullet seating, crimping and so on. You want to load mediocre ammo, that's your business.

And in case you don't believe me, go over to the Brian Enos forum. Lots of competitive shooters, lots of 9mm info, a lot is good, some not so good. But you won't find anyone mixing brass unless it's practice ammo at very short range.
 

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My favorite cast bullets for 9mm are 122 gr truncated cone flat point (TCFP) made by a local bullet caster. He also makes 147 gr TCFP that several of the guys I shoot with in IDPA use. One of them uses that same bullet in his .38 spl loads, and they do shoot very well.
Back before people started renaming things, this is the classic amongst non-round nose bullets. It's called the Hensley and Gibbs #68, it's been the standard for accurate 45acp shooting for decades . It's known as a Semi Wad Cutter sitting next to a wadcutter (38 spl). Below that is the first 230 grain "Truncated Flat nose" FMJ named by Mr Hornady Sr before he passed back in the early 80s. I started using it to punch cars the way hardball (Issue ammo) wouldn't

Hornady's son Steve dropped the bullet from his catalog and it's still currently made by Nosler.

WC SWC.JPG


truncated FN.JPG
 

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Back before people started renaming things, this is the classic amongst non-round nose bullets. It's called the Hensley and Gibbs #68, it's been the standard for accurate 45acp shooting for decades . It's known as a Semi Wad Cutter sitting next to a wadcutter (38 spl). Below that is the first 230 grain "Truncated Flat nose" FMJ named by Mr Hornady Sr before he passed back in the early 80s. I started using it to punch cars the way hardball (Issue ammo) wouldn't

Hornady's son Steve dropped the bullet from his catalog and it's still currently made by Nosler.

View attachment 619935

View attachment 619937
The truncated cone flat point is a “pointier” profile bullet than that.
 

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The truncated cone flat point is a “pointier” profile bullet than that.
People trying to improve bullet design is normal. Over the past 40+ years I've been using the H&G 68, I've tried several variations of the design, some good, some not so good. One was a coated bullet made 40 years ago. It was great for match ammo, but the cost killed the company.

If you go on the cast boolits forum, there's a couple of people that are real friends of mine that actually try and improve various cast bullets styles including a Webley bullet a year or two ago (this one came to mind first).
 

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When somebody says "truncated cone" I think of the old Lyman 9mm mold even though it is not the same shape as the early DWM Parabellum.

The Hornady design arose as a 124 gr 9mm as part of the early 1980s US shift from .45 to 9mm. It briefly faded to a "roundnose flat point" before a regular roundnose was adopted to be sure our alleged allies could use our ammo in their guns not throated for the Hornady.
The .45 version was an outgrowth of that for commercial sales. Jeff Cooper liked it because it penetrated straight on instead of wandering like a roundnose.
I cannot find it or any .45 ACP bullet at all on the Nosler WWW. There is a mould for it, used by many commercial casters, and some similar shape plated bullets.

There are a lot of long nosed semiwadcutters out there, but I don't know how close they are to a real HG 68 as designed by a Mr Crawford.
The old Advance Bullet Co in Georgia had a SWC with sharp corners to the nose flat that they claimed was the "real H&G 68 design." They shot well in M25 revolvers but if you wanted a bullet from Advance to feed in your auto, they had a SWC with the meplat a complete hemisphere they called the Shaw bullet.
 

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Discussion Starter #47
Another question for you guys.

What is the target velocity you want out of the training round? Do you want in around 1050 fps or push faster in the 1100 range? I will make sure there will be no over pressure signs when at those speeds.
 

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Discussion Starter #48
Sorry, I mean for a 9mm 124 grain fmj, what velocity would you guys prefer to have this at?
 

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Another question for you guys.

What is the target velocity you want out of the training round? Do you want in around 1050 fps or push faster in the 1100 range? I will make sure there will be no over pressure signs when at those speeds.
1050 - 1100 is fine. I don’t think you want it super warm. Keep your cost down and make it comfortable for your customers to shoot.
 

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Discussion Starter #51
Thank you gentlemen!

Today, I was able to get a ransom rest off another gentleman. The price was well worth the 4 hour round about trip. The rest included his original paperwork. Which upon reading made it clear why he was happy with his asking price.
 

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NHC Falcon, T4, Glock 21 all 45 acp Wilson EDC-X9
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I tell ya what I’ll be your test haha send me 500 of each and I’ll tell ya.
 

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NHC Falcon, T4, Glock 21 all 45 acp Wilson EDC-X9
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Well that sounds like a deal to me hahah.

HAHA just shoot me a message and I'll get my address to you and heck I'll even cover shipping :D
 

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Why the 124gr love - does it help make a certain power factor or something?

I tend to prefer faster / lighter in 9mm (115gr).

Thoughts?

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For 9mm, I like the 124gr because it has the most options in defensive ammunition. For 115gr premium defensive ammo, you pretty much have the old 9BPLE, 9BP, XM9001, and Gold Dot. In the 124gr, you get the newer loads from Federal (Tactical Bonded, HST, Hydrashok) as well as Gold Dot, Golden Saber (regular and Bonded), Ranger (Bonded and T-Series), etc.
 

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For 9mm, I like the 124gr because it has the most options in defensive ammunition. For 115gr premium defensive ammo, you pretty much have the old 9BPLE, 9BP, XM9001, and Gold Dot. In the 124gr, you get the newer loads from Federal (Tactical Bonded, HST, Hydrashok) as well as Gold Dot, Golden Saber (regular and Bonded), Ranger (Bonded and T-Series), etc.

You also get less muzzle rise with the 124s over using 147s.
 
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