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Preferred Grain for Training Round

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My practice load is Wilson combat accuracy load. 200 gr lswc 4.8 gr of bullseye .469 by 1.25. Shoots poa of 230gr hardball. I imch lower that my carry ammo. Speer 230 hp.
 

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Discussion Starter #82 (Edited)
Update:

Still waiting on ATF approval.

I have insurance lined up for the company.

Trying out different website builders to see which one is the right fit.

I have my business license and local licensing done, EIN is secured for the business.

Still trying to locate some CFE pistol powder. I am trying out several different powders, as I don't want to be dependent on just one powder to be available.

I have been in talks with suppliers and some of them (most of them actually) are not taking OEM orders for the foreseeable future. So that leads to another issue. With the uncertainty of when orders will be filled, I will have to make a larger one than planned. It won't do me and you any good if I bought only enough inventory for a month and then having nothing for the next six months.

What I am planning to do putting extra money aside for the order and for an automated press. This is pushing back my last estimate of being operational in June/July, to the fall of this year (pending on availability of components).



723240

Getting closer, it seems like one step forward and two steps back, luckily I am too stubborn to quit.
 

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I looked at making a line of ammunition as well, and long before finding this thread. I was shocked at finding it relatively easy to get up and started with the paperwork and how little paperwork was needed to start. My dream to create training rounds that would punch through paper but be minimal in penetration died. A little fortitude would have yielded great results in these last two years.
Keep pushing.
 

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Discussion Starter #86
I looked at making a line of ammunition as well, and long before finding this thread. I was shocked at finding it relatively easy to get up and started with the paperwork and how little paperwork was needed to start. My dream to create training rounds that would punch through paper but be minimal in penetration died. A little fortitude would have yielded great results in these last two years.
Keep pushing.
I agree, I thought there would have been a mountain of paperwork, but was surprised at how little is needed.

I am always open to suggestions to what ammo lines will be offered. So if you have any ideas to what you would like to see, feel free to share!
 

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I think 124gr for 9mm is what my preference. For police dept training, I try to get those for range work. In the heat of the moment the difference between a 124gr and a 147gr will me minimal at CQB distance and I don't have to worry about the Officer experiencing a real world noticeable difference. Economics say make the 115gr and sell the crap out of it to folks so they can get some bang bang time. Standards on it should just follow SAMMI specs. You could do a separate station manned by more anal folks to make special batches that adhere more toward those that want and need consistency for more accuracy. I think that that would not be but a minute selection of folks since those shooting that way already load their own. I can see it would be a nicity for those like me who are getting into more accuracy in rifle shooting and need something that will get us good skill development for range time until we too evolve our needs into reloading. Development wise, you can go down the rabbit hole I was headed for in making bullets. I was looking for a lead replacement and was looking at a porcelain mixture encased by a inverse puncture shell that would start folding inward and cause hydrostatic shock to the solid powdered internal mix to cause it to turn back into powder. It was going to be an interesting experiment. Good luck, Pricing the presses that did large batch work were not too outlandish either. I imagine they could be leased that way you could upgrade and get free maintenance.
 
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Just curious as the general opinions here do not match mine. Why ask preferences for 9mm on a predominantly 45acp group. Hoping not to offend anyone but I use more 9mm than any other caliber. 115gr has the most force and that's what I practice with.
 

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Discussion Starter #89
No offense taken and that is a good question!

9mm is the most popular round today, and since I do not have the means to start both. I chose to start with 9mm. This forum has a diverse range of shooters, from serious trainers, LE, military, enthusiasts, bullseye shooters, and casual. So I poised this question to see what would the mean or middle of the road would be.

Don't worry, 45 acp will be next! It will give me the excuse to buy some nice 45 acp 1911s, for research of course
 

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Discussion Starter #90
I think 124gr for 9mm is what my preference. For police dept training, I try to get those for range work. In the heat of the moment the difference between a 124gr and a 147gr will me minimal at CQB distance and I don't have to worry about the Officer experiencing a real world noticeable difference. Economics say make the 115gr and sell the crap out of it to folks so they can get some bang bang time. Standards on it should just follow SAMMI specs. You could do a separate station manned by more anal folks to make special batches that adhere more toward those that want and need consistency for more accuracy. I think that that would not be but a minute selection of folks since those shooting that way already load their own. I can see it would be a nicity for those like me who are getting into more accuracy in rifle shooting and need something that will get us good skill development for range time until we too evolve our needs into reloading. Development wise, you can go down the rabbit hole I was headed for in making bullets. I was looking for a lead replacement and was looking at a porcelain mixture encased by a inverse puncture shell that would start folding inward and cause hydrostatic shock to the solid powdered internal mix to cause it to turn back into powder. It was going to be an interesting experiment. Good luck, Pricing the presses that did large batch work were not too outlandish either. I imagine they could be leased that way you could upgrade and get free maintenance.
I am aiming to make the first ammo line as consistent as possible. I look at ammo the same way I load my rifle rounds, why would I chase sub moa from my rifle and accept 10 MOA ammo for my handgun? Considering I carry a handgun on me, not a rifle anymore.

I like the idea of lead replacement, once I get established. I will be experimenting with a 3d printer, there are a lot of materials that have piqued my interest. Carbon fiber is one I want to try for different applications. I want to make a defensive round, that has low recoil and gives up nothing in performance.

If you don't mind, you can pm if you want. What were the presses you were looking at and ball park range of the cost? If demands grows to such, I want to buy the presses to make all of the components eventually, to be an all in house manufacturer. Though most manufacturers of those presses are not keen on giving out quotes. One had asked me if I had the funds ready, and I responded "if I knew what the cost was, I would".
 

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Just curious as the general opinions here do not match mine. Why ask preferences for 9mm on a predominantly 45acp group. Hoping not to offend anyone but I use more 9mm than any other caliber. 115gr has the most force and that's what I practice with.
 

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Just curious as the general opinions here do not match mine. Why ask preferences for 9mm on a predominantly 45acp group. Hoping not to offend anyone but I use more 9mm than any other caliber. 115gr has the most force and that's what I practice with.
You mean it what was formerly a 45 ACP dominated group. Just look at the NEW firearms people are buying. 9mm is heavily trumping 45 ACP. This is being further exacerbated by the difficulty in finding factory 45 ACP ammunition, to buy. What is available is heavily favored toward the 9mm. I have even seen more 40 S&W for sale than 45 ACP. I am not counting Gunbroker.
 

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So my stable is small but varied: two 45's, two 9's, one 38spl, and one 10. Five of them
are pistols. Of those five; three are 1911s.
I for one, have never considered this to be a predominantly 45acp group. I do concede that when I think timeless or classic 1911; I most typically think 45acp BUT not always.

Most members here who have contributed to this thread have expressed preference for 9mm and in 124grain. I hope the OP also offers it in jhp eventually as well as ball.;)
 

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Discussion Starter #95
Once I get the first 9mm line up and running, and before I get the 45 acp. I will develop a JHP load. It will take time, there will be a lot of testing I want to do before I put that out into the market. Lots of gel tests to select the right bullet, accuracy, reliability, barrier testing. If people were to carry it, I want to ensure it will do the job 100% of the time. That will include to have a sealant on around primer and the bullet.

I am looking forward to get to that point!
 

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Once I get the first 9mm line up and running, and before I get the 45 acp. I will develop a JHP load. It will take time, there will be a lot of testing I want to do before I put that out into the market. Lots of gel tests to select the right bullet, accuracy, reliability, barrier testing. If people were to carry it, I want to ensure it will do the job 100% of the time. That will include to have a sealant on around primer and the bullet.

I am looking forward to get to that point!
To be honest I think this plan would be a mistake.

1. There is HUGE demand out there for affordable, target .45 ACP ammo.

2. With a JHP you are trying to go head to head with the best in the business who have expended huge resources to develop JHP rounds that have captured significant market share and name brand recognition.

Why should somebody buy your rounds when they could just buy HST or Gold Dots instead? For rounds you have to trust with your life, brand reputation (which you have zero) is hugely important.

I’m sorry but this is a major misreading of the market.

Cheap, reliable target ammo is where your opportunity lies. Making a JHP is a decision that seems like you want this to be a hobby rather than a business.

But it’s your call to make. I’ll be happy to buy your 9mm.. and especially your .45 ACP when it’s eventually available.

I don’t have any interest in buying JHP ammo from an unknown brand with a statistically insignificant fraction of the testing resources of the major brands. Sorry.

Good luck!
 

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To be honest I think this plan would be a mistake.

1. There is HUGE demand out there for affordable, target .45 ACP ammo.

2. With a JHP you are trying to go head to head with the best in the business who have expended huge resources to develop JHP rounds that have captured significant market share and name brand recognition.

Why should somebody buy your rounds when they could just buy HST or Gold Dots instead? For rounds you have to trust with your life, brand reputation (which you have zero) is hugely important.

I’m sorry but this is a major misreading of the market.

Cheap, reliable target ammo is where your opportunity lies. Making a JHP is a decision that seems like you want this to be a hobby rather than a business.

But it’s your call to make. I’ll be happy to buy your 9mm.. and especially your .45 ACP when it’s eventually available.

I don’t have any interest in buying JHP ammo from an unknown brand with a statistically insignificant fraction of the testing resources of the major brands. Sorry.

Good luck!
Major misreading of the market?

9mm and 223/5.56 are the most in demand ammo. 45acp can be found far easier than 9mm.

As far as in competition with other companies? Normal supplies won't return to normal at least until the 3rd or 4th quarter of the year. Everyone is producing to capacity and it isn't enough given all the gun sales over the past 6 months.

The OP has his ideas in tune with the market.
 

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Major misreading of the market?

9mm and 223/5.56 are the most in demand ammo. 45acp can be found far easier than 9mm.

As far as in competition with other companies? Normal supplies won't return to normal at least until the 3rd or 4th quarter of the year. Everyone is producing to capacity and it isn't enough given all the gun sales over the past 6 months.

The OP has his ideas in tune with the market.
sigh

It’s not about the caliber. I mention caliber, because of what I’d like to see. But thats not what the post is about. It’s about the bullet/purpose.

Reread my post again. If you still don’t get it, then never mind. Don’t worry about it.
 

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I am sure there is a higher profit margin selling JHP, but anybody that is not desperate for ammo would not buy a new unknown brand JHP for defense. I know I wouldn’t.
 

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Discussion Starter #100 (Edited)
No need to by sorry Dreadnought, I am asking for opinions! What you said made sense about the JHP. I will hold off on that and focus on FMJs first.

Gun_fan111, yes the profit margin would slightly higher, but my goal is to have quality defensive ammo. At a price point that one can train with. For this is a hobby for me and I want to offer products at a price point that I would buy.

Thanks guys, I was getting ahead of myself.
 
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