Opinions on GB Sistema Finish

Discussion in 'Collector's Corner' started by Acco40, Jun 3, 2020.

  1. Acco40

    Acco40 Well-Known Member Supporting Addict

    614
    Aug 4, 2013
    Good evening,

    Curious as to your expert opinions on the finish of this 1951 Sistema. I thought that with a few exceptions, they all came in a black oxide finish? To my uneducated eyes, that doesn't look like the black oxide finish I have seen on other Sistema's. But that wouldn't be the first time I was wrong. I would appreciate your comments. Thanks.

    https://www.gunbroker.com/item/867692140
     
    ZoidMeister likes this.
  2. Colorado Sonny

    Colorado Sonny Deo Volente Supporting Addict

    Sep 25, 2015

  3. ZoidMeister

    ZoidMeister Consider my signature line before replying . . . .

    Dec 4, 2014
    If it looks too good to be true . . . . .

    Almost looks like a Turnbull restoration. I need to get a better look on my PC in the AM. Bryant Ridge has a sordid history of selling polished / refinished guns. Fortunately there's plenty of time to do proper research.

    Z
     
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  4. Acco40

    Acco40 Well-Known Member Supporting Addict

    614
    Aug 4, 2013
    Also I only thought some of the very early ones came with wood grips with vertical groves.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  5. ZoidMeister

    ZoidMeister Consider my signature line before replying . . . .

    Dec 4, 2014

    Here are a couple photos of my 1949 Sistema. Pretty obvious this one has been refinished. You can see the pitting beneath the finish in places. I need to get a better look at the one on GB, but I think it exhibits a bit of the same.

    This Sistema is all original including the grips.

    Argentine Model 1927 Sistema - 03.JPG

    Argentine Model 1927 Sistema - 07.JPG

    Argentine Model 1927 Sistema - 11.JPG


    The grips that you reference, wood with vertical lines, were standard on the Ballester Molina's. It's a completely different gun. This one was manufactured in 1949 as well, but the finish is original. I think you can see the difference, but the Sistema on GB has some of these traits as well. Hard to see accurately on this phone.

    My 1949 Ballester Molina.

    Ballester Molina-004.JPG

    Ballester Molina-001.JPG

    Ballester Molina-007.JPG



    The grips are not interchangeable. The hole spacing on the Ballester grips are much further apart

    Hope this helps.

    Z
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
    Acco40 likes this.
  6. WC145

    WC145 Every day is Saturday and every night's a party!

    Jan 1, 2013
    That's one of the best looking Sistemas I've seen. Since collector value isn't much I'd consider buying it just because it's such a nice looking example and not worry about whether or not it had been refinished.
     
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  7. ZoidMeister

    ZoidMeister Consider my signature line before replying . . . .

    Dec 4, 2014

    I'm not bidding on anything else this year, but being the all knowing Schultz that I am, I wouldn't be surprised to see it go north of $1,500, especially on GB.

    That puts it way out of my league.

    Schultz - I know nothing 1.gif
     
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  8. CHL82

    CHL82 Well-Known Member

    179
    Aug 31, 2019
    Anybody else notice the rear sight? Half off the slide in some pics and centered in the dovetail on others.
     
  9. Jim w.

    Jim w. Well-Known Member

    Jul 27, 2016
    Yes, and text says "Beautiful set of Checkered Walnut Grips" while pictures show USGI plastic. Maybe not even the same left to right.
     
  10. azguy1911

    azguy1911 I'm done buying guns, I'm just a bystander now

    Oct 22, 2015
    That rear sight is hilarious
     
  11. ZoidMeister

    ZoidMeister Consider my signature line before replying . . . .

    Dec 4, 2014
    Okay, here's the skinny on that one. I am judging it to be a typical Bryant Ridge spit shine and polish job. Take a look at the following areas. Enlarge the photos and zoom in on the GB listing:

    • Thumb safety - pits and dents.
    • Grips beneath the plunger tube - HEAVY pitting evident, not fully covered by the grips
    • Frame above the slide stop - same as above, that's not dirt or lint. Seller would have cleaned it out.
    • Left side of slide, top - pits they didn't get polished (not a big deal, but . . . . )
    • Photo #5 & #12 - the rear sight is hanging WAY off the slide to the left.
    • Photo #15 - stampings towards the front of the slide look doubled. Original? Who knows, but all markings look too clean given the pitting noted above. Look at ARGENTINO and MOD. vs the stampings on mine. Better photos below.
    • The font in the stampings EJERCITO ARGENTINA looks narrower, not the same.
    • This is a big one. The crest looks childlike. The leaves are not the same. The rising sun is not the same. A screen shot of a real one can be seen below above the one from GB.

    Other than the above, it looks nice. I would probably give $500 to $600 for it, if it were local and I could take it apart to look at the internals.



    upload_2020-6-4_10-0-48.png



    The next two are a couple variations of real crests


    upload_2020-6-4_10-29-38.png

    upload_2020-6-4_10-6-46.png



    This one is from the GB auction that I suspect.

    upload_2020-6-4_10-7-13.png


    Doubled stamp. May be original?

    upload_2020-6-4_10-15-2.png
     
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  12. Mickey D

    Mickey D Active Member

    66
    Nov 2, 2011
    I’d never buy from that seller. He has misrepresent everything he lists.
     
  13. Lakeman45

    Lakeman45 Active Member

    279
    May 15, 2017
    Why would anyone go to the trouble and expense to fake something with no more value than that? A Turnbull restoration would cost twice what the pistol brought.

    Not worth faking.
     
  14. WVsig

    WVsig Well-Known Member

    690
    Mar 8, 2018
    I am certainly no expert on Sistema Colts but I do own one. This is the crest on mine. It looks similar to the gun on GB. I believe the one on GB is over polished. The serial numbers are close to each other. So either we have identical fakes or it is real but over polished.

    [​IMG]
     
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