[7.62Kolectr]

By now most if not all have read about the man who stopped the church shooting in Texas yesterday. If not here’s a link to him.

https://heavy.com/news/2019/12/jack...MHG_2-8SQ2MsUXZhQfiD_yOsI3hYwX3tMSCXcKThMZlHU


The event is over. And after seeing how it happened and how it was stopped I want to ask everyone a simple question.

Can you make a headshot on a slow moving target from a distance of approx 10-15 yards? For now let’s just say your on a range and not in an instant panic situation. I’m not sure if that’s what he was aiming at or not? But the lower half of bad guys body was concealed by the pews and parishioners. So he only had the top portion to shoot at anyway.

Just a simple question. Can you make that shot?
Be honest with yourself. I consider myself very proficient with pistols in general. But even that shot I’m not sure of.

 

[B81]

Head shot on a stationary target? Sure. Practice it out to 25 yards all the time.

Head shot on a moving target at that distance? I'm not so sure. The guy who made that shot is someone worth learning from.

 

[7.62Kolectr]

Head shot on a stationary target? Sure. Practice it out to 25 yards all the time.

Head shot on a moving target at that distance? I'm not so sure. The guy who made that shot is someone worth learning from.

In the classes I’ve taken we are the ones who move and target stays stationary. I’ve made running shots on squirrels with .22 rifles before. I guess those who’ve competed before and shot at movers or spinners would have an advantage. But how many people have done that?

 

[john_anch_ak]

That's a tough question alright. I'd like to think I can but facing an attacker who has just shot people would result in a huge dump of Adrenalin. To stop him, I would take the shot.
I know I didn't really answer your question but these are my thoughts. I pray to God that I never have to shoot anyone.

 

[JRK1990]

Handgun, I'd say the percentage of me hitting that shot to be under 30%. With a rifle I'd feel more confident but still who knows.

 

[7.62Kolectr]

That's a tough question alright. I'd like to think I can but facing an attacker who has just shot people would result in a huge dump of Adrenalin. To stop him, I would take the shot.
I know I didn't really answer your question but these are my thoughts. I pray to God that I never have to shoot anyone.

in watching the video the GG was separated from the BG by several people. He took his shot in what seems like only a second before a couple of them stood up.

 

[JRK1990]

I think one of the things that stood out to me the most was the fact that so many of the volunteer security ran towards the gunman and not away in fear. In comparison to the SRO officer who hide during the Parkland school shooting.

 

[Babboonbobo]

Yes on a stationary target like in the video. I too also practice pistol to 50 meters all the time (shoot clays on our backstop) and regularly hit bowling pins at 75 yards. All static and stationary but still doable shots. If said target starts moving then not so sure of myself but as seen in the church shooting, yes I believe I could and would have made that shot, especially as it seems criminals attention was not on the defender at the time which gave him a very good advantage!!

 

[John Ryder]

I am confident I could make headshot hits for a slow moving target out to 15 yards. My hits at distant and moving have improved since moving back to a RMR.

 

[Integrity Arms]

In the time frame the guy took the shot from raising the pistol, under duress, this guy made a helluva shot on the gunman.

Until actually confronted with a situation like this, I'd say it would be hard to predict the outcome. A lot changes in a persons mind under duress and in an actual life and death situation. Shooting a head shot at 12-15 yards. Yes all day, hitting the gunman first shot given the circumstances hmm hard to say.

 

[Spokes]

Jack did it all in an instant....
Wonder what kind of gun and caliber he used..

 

[nikerret]

Impossible to really say, unless the situation is presented. There’s too many factors. Is it your best day or the day you’ve spent most of the morning on the toilet?

It was a hell of a shot and I’m glad he made it.

Yes, it was good the armed members moved toward the gunman. What was not good is I didn’t see much, if any, checking the other areas for additional threats. The guy in the red shirt moving down the main aisle appeared to have massive tunnel vision while he muzzled everyone between himself and the downed bad guy.

There’s a lot to be learned from this incident. Unfortunately, in order from when the overt threat is presented, the first lesson is the bad guy will take out resistance first. This can spur a gigantic discussion about open carry, but no matter what comes of it, we won’t know the exact sequence that would have changed this bad guy’s plan.

 

[JRK1990]

Jack did it all in an instant....
Wonder what kind of gun and caliber he used..

In a article I read he used a P229 in 357 sig

 

[B81]

In a article I read he used a P229 in 357 sig

If he made that shot shooting in double action, then I'm double impressed.

 

[nikerret]

Jack did it all in an instant....
Wonder what kind of gun and caliber he used..

Did you read the article? It says a Sig 229 in 357Sig.

 

[Dwe]

I think we should take this discussion to ...
could you make the shot under stress?
Not being LE or military the only way I know of to train for a situation like what happened yesterday is to shoot in some sort of LE training or competition.
It teaches you safety, muzzle control, puts time constraints
on drawing your weapon and accuracy, all under stress.
Adrenalin is an awesome chemical to over come.
This man, had training and I suspect he got it either in the military,
LE, or he got it at his shooting club. Just my 2 cents.

I haven't competed in many years but I remember what stress does to a person.
Folks forget the basics. This man, recognized the gun, drew his weapon and took
one shot....And it was over. Do you realize the patients, and training that took?

He is either the luckiest man in the world, or a well trained, disciplined
man with the confidence and accuracy that is rare in the world of firearms.
I have seen LE's that could not have made that shot, because they thought carrying a firearm was a requirement, of the job and chose not to make it second nature.
This man, took the responsibility of firearms training seriously.
And it saved lives.

Although the first man shot, recognized the threat, and had a clear shot and background, his movement gave him away and in the end paid a dear price.
When the second man who was shot saw the gun pointed at the first man shot,
he had a chance to rush the assailant but instead backed off and also paid a dear price.
These two brave men gave their lives for their church members.
And their actions gave the good guy a chance to put the shooter down..

Greater gift hath no man than they who gave their lives for their fello man.

 

[1L26]

His 229/357 Sig made a hell of a racket going off in that church. Well done!

 

[nikerret]

This man, had training and I suspect he got it either in the military,
LE, or more likely he got it at his shooting club. Just my 2 cents.

I haven't competed in many years but I remember what stress does to a person.
Folks forget the basics. This man, recognized the gun, drew his weapon and took
one shot....And it was over. Do you realize the patients, and training that took?

He is either the luckiest man in the world, of a well trained, disciplined
man with the confidence and accuracy that is rare in the world of firearms.

According to the article linked, he was in LE, as a reserve from 1980 to 1986. He owns a gun range and firearm training company.

 

[dnuggett]

My answer is twofold.

1. It depends on the gun. I feel more confident saying yes with most of my carry guns (1911 & CZ P10C) and all of the competition types (92X, Shadow 2, etc.) . There is one exception. If I had to do it with my LCP II, it’s harder to say.
2. I am confident under some stress I can make that shot. It’s impossible to recreate that exact scenario though, so it’s hard to say unequivocally yes.

 

[Eric]

Prior to retiring 3 years ago I would say I could make the shot. Since retiring I’m become lazy about training and now would say I could probably make the shot (70%). Over the past year I have had a knee issue that has precluded a lot of realistic training and have shot mostly on the square range, static targets etc. hopefully the knee issue will be taken care of in the next month and by the summer I will be back to being able to train more realistically. The bigger question should be would you be willing to take the shot? Today with the possibility of being slammed by the media and liberals alike and knowing if you missed an innocent could be hit. Also you’ve just witnessed someone being shot and another while you are presenting your weapon. You also have the noise and confusion created by the bad guys shotgun going off indoors. Lots of factors beside the ability to make the shot. I had a officer involved shooting in 2003 that happened very quickly, I was able to shoot 2 amazing shots on a moving target and stop the threat. In retrospect I realized that training played a big part in the success but I was lucky that November morning more than anything. If I had not accepted the fact before that day that I might have to shoot someone I don’t think I would have been successful. A lot of people including cops carry guns and never think about that aspect of being armed. Get training, carry something other than a mousegun if you can and ask yourself if you could shoot someone.


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