Question about DW duty finish???

Discussion in 'General 1911 talk' started by BCD 45, Mar 18, 2019.

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  1. BCD 45

    BCD 45 Well-Known Member

    Feb 13, 2019
    I'm trying to learn about 1911's and have bought a couple SS DW's. My question is about their "duty finish". All I hear is don't use this or don't use that, it will spot or ruin the finish. DW owners manual even warns about getting solvents on it ruining the finish.

    So, my question is, why in the world would anyone pay an extra $300 for the duty finish that you have to treat like it will melt? If I wanted to, I could have a SS one cerakoted cheaper than $300 and not have to worry about what I get on it. I have a 25+ year old HK USP that has what they call the "hostile environment finish" and except for a few scratches still looks like new and no rust or dis-coloring. It's had every kind of solvent and oil that I've ever had on it without any damage.

    Maybe someone will explain to me what makes DW's $300 upgraded "duty finish" so great. If there is an explanation, I would certainly like to hear it.

    From Dan Wesson:
    Q. What lube and cleaner do you recommend on your guns?
    A. The Duty finish is the most durable finish on the market, however harsh cleaners will discolor it. The protection will still be there but you could cause streaking. There are literally hundreds of cleaners and oils on the market and more being produced every day. There is no way for us to test everything and that is why we only recommend a few that we know will work and work well. It is very important to stay away from strippers and degreasers. Generally, if it is safe for polymers and Painted pieces it will not discolor the Duty Treat, these are usually oil based cleaners.

    Jim D

     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019
  2. InstiGator

    InstiGator Well-Known Member

    494
    Jan 21, 2019
    I use the same Weapon Shield to clean my wife's Guardian that I use on all my guns. The duty treat on the slide hasn't melted so far. Still looks like new.
     

  3. WWB

    WWB Administrator Staff Member Admin Moderator Supporting Addict

    Apr 11, 2015
    Wear restistance is it’s top selling point of duty treatment. It is very hard to wear a duty treatment gun.
     
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  4. BCD 45

    BCD 45 Well-Known Member

    Feb 13, 2019
    Well MR. Admin.,
    I'm not trying to cut anyone down, it's their choice to spend an extra $300 on a delicate finish that's solvent sensitive. I think I'd rather have a handgun that wears a little for some character than to have one that might turn out spotted or streaked from an oil or solvent.

    I'm 67 and been around guns all my life. I've read warnings about certain stock finishes like a gloss lacquer finish or some plastics but never metal. And I've never owned a firearm that had a warning about using a special oil or solvent to clean with.

    Jim D
     
  5. Integrity Arms

    Integrity Arms 1911 Pistol Smith

    Mar 20, 2017
    It is nearly impervious to any physical wear due to carry and handling and will resist scratching and chipping, flaking etc.. It just doesn't do chemicals real well as it tend to cloud the finish. I have even had a small amount of tape residue get stuck in the finish and not come out. It's a good hard surface, but it is a one and done deal nobody really wants to try and work any on aesthetics or anything with that finish on a gun.. I know I won't be doing anymore of them personally. And don't get me wrong I am a huge DW fan, I just am not a fan of this finish any longer.
     
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  6. BCD 45

    BCD 45 Well-Known Member

    Feb 13, 2019
    Steve,
    I'm with you brother. I really like DW's a lot, a good looking gun a very smooth and well built for a production gun. I know that DW could come up with a better finish that wouldn't do that. You don't hear complaints about other guns, NH, WC, GI, or even Kimber for that matter. I'm just saying that I wouldn't pay an extra $300 for it.

    When I was building rifles, I probably had 30+ cerakoted by X-WERKS in Phoenix. I don't know the process they used but I know there are several different kinds of cerakote and the process by which they apply it. I just know that I've had many different solvents and oils get on them and all just wiped off without any discoloring are any other problems.

    I'll quit this thread just by saying that for the money DW/CZ gets for their firearms now days that they could find a better finish and people like you would & could do work on them.

    Jim D
     
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  7. Integrity Arms

    Integrity Arms 1911 Pistol Smith

    Mar 20, 2017
    Agreed, we have a couple really great Smiths that frequent this forum that do some of the best Cerakote finish I have ever seen. And imo if applied correctly is just about as good of a finish as any other. The bad applicators, and those taking short cuts, not parking pistols or firearms first etc.. Give the actual product a bad name that it really don't deserve. I always say also, any finish will only hold up as well as you take care of it period. Lets face it there are some people that could destroy anything lol.. And not GAS one way or the other about how bad they beat stuff up haha.. But, for those that care and care for their stuff I believe it's a very decent finish option.
     
  8. removed

    removed Well-Known Member

    Aug 22, 2015
    /steps on soapbox

    It amazes me there is so much hate about Duty Treated pistols because people want to use brand X of a cleaner they have used on other guns their entire lives. When they find out they can't use their beloved brand they lose their mind. They go to forums and social media platforms venting and demonizing DW over the finish of their gun, specifically what you can and can not use on it.

    How about following the manufacturer's recommendations and call it a day? (Nah, that would be too easy!!)

    Another perspective or analogy: Do I get upset when I can not use the car engine oil I have in my gargage from upteen years ago, in my new fancy car? No, I do not. I follow what the automaker says I should use and don't give it a second thought. My car cost a hell of a lot more than my DW pistols.

    /steps off soapbox
     
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  9. WC145

    WC145 Every day is Saturday and every night's a party!

    Jan 1, 2013
    Well, this thread was a waste of time.
     
  10. BCD 45

    BCD 45 Well-Known Member

    Feb 13, 2019
    To each their own. And I don't have a favorite solvent, that's the point, I want to use what is available to me wherever I'm at.

    And what about if you send it to a gunsmith and they just happen to use the wrong oil or solvent and it gets screwed up, like what happened to Steve with the tape?

    I think you think I'm blasting DW and I'm not, I really like their firearms a lot. I'm just saying that for me, I wouldn't pay an extra $300 for a finish like that. I would be worried that it will get screwed up all the time.

    Jim D
     
  11. WC145

    WC145 Every day is Saturday and every night's a party!

    Jan 1, 2013
    If you're not going to pay for Duty Treat because some solvents can discolor it, then just don't. I don't understand the complaint. No one ever complained because Hoppes #9 can damage nickel finishes, they just didn't buy nickel or didn't use Hoppes. I don't like the .40S&W caliber, I don't complain about guns being made in .40S&W, I just don't buy them.
     
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  12. BCD 45

    BCD 45 Well-Known Member

    Feb 13, 2019
    WC145,

    Sorry if my thread offended you in someway. I see you have 3,780 posts so I'll just leave them to you so no one will get offended.

    Jim D
     
  13. Capthobo

    Capthobo NRA Endowment member Supporting Addict

    Nov 9, 2016
    Why don’t you go buy a $100k + Mercedes, BMW, Bentley automobile that mandates a particular synthetic brand of oil type be used in the engine and put regular petroleum non approved oil in because that’s what you like. Just don’t piss and moan when the engine fails and it’s not covered under the manufacturer warranty.
     
  14. BCD 45

    BCD 45 Well-Known Member

    Feb 13, 2019
    Post #12 applies to you also I guess.
     
  15. BR549er

    BR549er Well-Known Member

    760
    Jul 6, 2018
    BCD45,

    This subject is a common thread started by newcomers. I'm fairly new, and have seen this several times. Usually someone posts the "eating popcorn" or "eyeroll" emoji.
    I had questions about duty treat, I used the search function.
    Easy peasy.

    Learn your lesson with respect from the old timers and don't disrespect them. There is so much knowledge and experience here I'd posit you shouldn't worry about their feelings and accept there are people in this world that know more than you do.
     
  16. BR549er

    BR549er Well-Known Member

    760
    Jul 6, 2018
  17. removed

    removed Well-Known Member

    Aug 22, 2015
    Let's all step back, breath and sing kumbaya (me included).
    BCD 45 asked a question or made a statement and we let him have it with "both barrels" (again, me included).

    We all started somewhere learning all this stuff, some stuff along the way are new so we asked questions. We (again, including myself) sometime need to step back and be better at the knowledge sharing. Yes, the topic has been brought up many times before, and yes, some folks may not be "forum savvy" or internet savvy so the search function may not have occurred to them.

    I offer an apology to BCD 45, my "rant" post was not in line with the standards of this forum or the membership as a whole.

    *Editor's note - I wrote this response after a long walk and thinking about my original response to BCD 45.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019
  18. GasGuzz

    GasGuzz New Member

    14
    Dec 3, 2018
    Preface I have no dog in this.
    ‘... strippers and degreasers... There is no way for us to test everything and that is why we only recommend a few that we know will work and work well.’
    That’s all the text I need to tell me it’s a CYA statement from DW Legal.
    What I use for my HK’s and others, my DT Valkyrie gets as well and I find no discoloring of any kind and is as durable as any top tier maker. If these guys employ basic ferritic nitrocarburizing hardening into their products, I trust common gun cleaning agents won’t mar the top coat.
     
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  19. Busa Dave

    Busa Dave Well-Known Member

    Mar 3, 2018
    Get it finished in melonite or Ion Bond. The spray and bake finishes are limited BUT they are easier to refinish. After experience with just about every finish that became popular from the Robar, Birdsong, Cerakote and even the Wilson spray and bake finish I would not even consider one now. Hell when doing a build with an aluminum frame I spec out that the actual Military Specification for anodizing MIL-A-8625 (LR) be used if they cannot the build does not happen. Part of that is I am familiar with that particular process even if we used Type I Chromic for our stuff at work. Maybe I am just too picky. :)

    Your experience and mileage may vary of course.

    Oh and almost forgot----:popcorn:
     
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  20. BCD 45

    BCD 45 Well-Known Member

    Feb 13, 2019
    BR549er,

    Thank you, that was very courteous of you. I've barely been a member a month and have already bought 2 guns from the classifieds. When I joined I made no bones about being brand new to 1911's having bought my first one on line 1-1-19. But I'm not young and have had hundreds if not thousands of guns.

    I'm a 67 year old leg disabled vet and I can't drive and have to use a walker to walk but I still shoot and love guns. I decided that I was going to sell what I have now, about 80 guns, and invest in 1911's. I just sold a NIB Cooper rifle and have a Nighthawk that will be here Thursday. That makes 5 1911's now. Being disabled I like tinkering with guns and I love talking to "nice" people on these forums and I really like this one especially.

    You may wonder how I've had so many guns and the answer is for about 20 years, gun shows was a hobby of mine and I traveled all across the south & east going to gun shows and buying & selling. I see in your signature you mention .17 HMR. I've had several of them and love to shoot them as well. I have 2 NIB now that I'll be selling but they are high quality one's. Thanks again brother, I appreciate what you had to say.

    Jim D
     
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