red dot or not

Discussion in 'Beginner's Corner' started by George Jefferson Ledford, Dec 25, 2018.

  1. George Jefferson Ledford

    George Jefferson Ledford New Member

    Dec 25, 2018
    I have a 1911 R 1 Enhanced and I would like to add a red dot sight. I would appreciate hearing from those who have done this . Thanks
  2. BennyAdeline

    BennyAdeline Official Hi-Point Brand Representative

    Nov 26, 2018
    The application for which I use a red dot is defensive, and I have found it to make me much faster after putting in the work to get good with it. Accuracy at speed has improved as well. Very much worth it as those fractions of a second I gained may save lives one day.

  3. Doug Walker

    Doug Walker Well-Known Member

    Jan 16, 2017
    I think it depends on what you are using and how good your eyesight is. There is no question that a reddot can help aging eyes. They can also make a good sight for precision shooting, especially at distance where you have to hold over. I found myself to be a little faster with iron sights when I was going for speed from a holster draw. Probably muscle memory more than anything, though. I sold my rmr Glock, but I’ll probably get another someday.

    How do you plan to use your R1?
  4. Badguybuster

    Badguybuster Well-Known Member

    Apr 19, 2018
    I just recently did a cqb course using a red dot on a Sig 226. It was SIGNIFICANTLY better than stock least for me. A couple other folks tried it and were equally impressed.
    rod442 likes this.
  5. BigJimP

    BigJimP Well-Known Member

    Mar 12, 2018
    I put a red dot on a Wilson Combat .22 conversion kit...( just to test it )....vs the Wilson Battle sight on the rear and a fibre optic on front. ( 5" full sized Wilson Combat 1911 ).

    Turns out I was almost a 1/2 sec slower with the red dot ...out of a holster to my first shot.
    So my vote is no.... and my eyes are bad ( getting ready for cataract surgery in both eyes in mid Jan and early Feb...) so I may re-evaluate after that, but I think I will just stay with conventional sights.
  6. azpoolguy

    azpoolguy Well-Known Member

    Jul 4, 2013
    Red dot all day every day.
    knedrgr likes this.
  7. walleyemonster

    walleyemonster Well-Known Member

    Jan 11, 2017
    EGW makes a dovetail mount to fit a Novak dovetail. I tried a Vortex Razor red dot for a couple of months. I did like it, but being a traditionalist, I couldn't get used to the look or extra bulk on the pistol. Your opinion may vary.
  8. JNW

    JNW Well-Known Member

    Apr 19, 2017
    I’m firmly in the red dot camp. I don’t carry very often and my carry guns all have a red fiber optic front sight. I can shoot open sights really well to 30 feet and pretty good at 50 feet. But, when target shooting I do significantly better with a red dot. You do have to practice acquiring the dot to become proficient and that takes more than 1 or 2 range trips. At the highest levels of competition, be it for precision or speed, when given the choice virtually everyone chooses to shoot an optic.
  9. pscipio03

    pscipio03 Fun O' Meter on FULL

    Mar 11, 2013
    If you’ll take the time to practice with the red dot, you’ll appreciate it’s value.
    There’s a reason most people don’t use iron sights primarily on ARs anymore- they are substandard to red dot sights.
    Pistols are just about a decade behind ARs with the application of RDSs.
    UBOATDOC likes this.
  10. wrmiller

    wrmiller The Tinker

    Oct 29, 2016
    I shot red dot sights on my competition 1911s for about 15 years. You couldn't be competitive in Master class without one.

    I have RMR red dot sights on both my Kimber 45 and STI 10mm (the one in my avatar) and wouldn't change them out for anything. Single plane sighting, and quick to put on the target once you have properly trained with them.

    Oh, and welcome to the forum. :)
    gaijin and azpoolguy like this.
  11. azpoolguy

    azpoolguy Well-Known Member

    Jul 4, 2013
    Just think about the process of shooting a target or threat with iron sights.

    Focus on the target. Now look at the spot you want the bullet to impact. Now shift your focus to the tiny little front sight while the target/ threat gets blurry. Now align the rear sight and front sight. Look back a the target/threat to make sure it’s still there. Now focus back on the tiny front sight and then rear sight and then back to the front now pull the trigger. It just doesn’t make any sense.

    Now think about the dot.

    Foucus on the target/ threat. Stare at the spot you want the bullet to impact. Now hold the pistol in front of your face while continuing to foucus on the target/threat impose the dot on the spot you want the bullet to impact and pull the trigger.

    What sounds more logical? Shooting a blurry target or threat or a hard target focus at the point you wish the bullet to impact?
  12. gaijin

    gaijin Well-Known Member

    May 18, 2015
    The RD shines (no pun intended) for me on precision (think head shots) past 25 yds and transitions are quicker (single plane advantage) at any range.

    Trade off is dedication/muscle memory necessary to find the dot rapidly with the draw.
    Also consider- the RD is battery powered, batteries fail. Not an issue on the range, real life a different story.
    Changing battery in an RMR is a pain in the ass- the unit must be removed from slide to install new battery.

    I still shoot irons well. In spite of this, I have RMR's on a couple of pistols and continue to attempt to master guns so equipped.
    There is a definite advantage with RD equipped handguns.
  13. azpoolguy

    azpoolguy Well-Known Member

    Jul 4, 2013
    A quick tip I saw on an Sage Dynamics video for finding the dot faster is to just place the hammer or rear slide plate in front of your nose on your presentation. Most people hold the pistol in front of their dominant eye to align their irons sights. Centered placement on your face makes the dot appear faster.

    Secondly- I’ve seen more Glocks fail during training then I have Trijicon RMRs or batteries die. But people still use those. So anything “can” happen in the “real” world not just at the range so I will stick with the RMR.
    The RMR will dim and not completely shut off when the battery gets low. If you are using the pistol for daily carry you will have time to notice the battery is low and swap it out before it dies completely on the street in a gun fight.
    gaijin and wrmiller like this.
  14. wrmiller

    wrmiller The Tinker

    Oct 29, 2016
    Today's batteries don't just switch off or go bad. And the electronics in a RMR are almost 'bulletproof' compared to the coke cans and other offerings available many years ago. I simply change out my battery every year (they are not that expensive) and have a bore laser that I quickly use to verify/re-zero the sight. Not that difficult.

    As for the training part, well, you need to train no more with a dot that you do with sights to become truly proficient with them. I found that with iron sights you need to be able to close your eyes, grab a pistol and stick it out in front of you and see a good sight picture when you open your eyes.

    The same practice is needed with a dot sight. You have to practice. And do even more practice, until you can throw the gun up in front of you and see a dot. Anything less can cause the loss of a USPSA match (done this), or worse, your life if you have one on a carry gun and really, really need it.

    I've had people ask me how much they should shoot in practice and my typical response is that if you're not throwing a few thousand rounds down-range in the course of a year, you probably shouldn't even be carrying a pistol. But that's just me. :)
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
    PewPewPtwang, gaijin, JNW and 2 others like this.
  15. George Jefferson Ledford

    George Jefferson Ledford New Member

    Dec 25, 2018
    thank you, that is a great heads up..
    wrmiller likes this.
  16. Greenrunner

    Greenrunner Well-Known Member

    Dec 11, 2017
    I just put a Holosun on my STI and it has been a revelation in terms of accuracy. I feel like the red dot allows me to reach out and out and place a round wherever I want, far more than with iron sights. My main reservation is that the red dot threatens to make my non-red dot handguns obsolete. Also, I need a lot more trigger time with the thing working on faster follow up shots.
    wrmiller and azpoolguy like this.
  17. r.masa

    r.masa Member

    Nov 22, 2018
    The only thing I can add is that if you plan to put a red dot on your pistol, plan on getting the slide milled for the red dot or purchasing a slide that is milled for the red dot. The reason for this is that if you use the dove tail mount/plate, it mounts the sight slightly higher than your normal iron sights. So in the beginning every time you bring the pistol up to position, it is slightly higher (sight line) than what you are use to. Its kind of tough getting use to in the beginning, but if your slide is cut for your sight, it mounts in the same sight line as the stock sights.
    Full disclosure, I am currently putting red dots on all my most used pistols (half way through).
    The only pistol that won't for sure get a red dot, is the one dedicated for home defense only, that one will stay completely stock.
    wrmiller and azpoolguy like this.
  18. Switchride

    Switchride Active Member

    Dec 14, 2018
    I was stuck in my ways of just using standard sights until I realized how bad my eyes had become. One trip to the range with my wife ringing steel and me constantly slightly off made me a believer lol
    wrmiller, Greenrunner and azpoolguy like this.
  19. Whiten

    Whiten Well-Known Member

    Jun 9, 2017
    I'm in the red dot camp. I've tried cheaper dots on pistols and didn't care for them until I got a RMR. The RMR 6.5/3.25 moa dot is round and crisp unlike the Vortex or Sig Romeo I tried. I have an astigmatism in my eyes that doesn't let me see some dots clear. I started with Glock MOS now I'm looking to put one on a 1911.

    I rather have the 6.5 dot as I can turn it down instead of cranking the 3.25 up to make it bigger. I shoot mainly 25yds or less so the 6.5 is what I went with. It doesn't hurt I got a good deal in the Addicts classifieds on the RMR.

    6.5 vs 3.25
    FWoo45, wrmiller and azpoolguy like this.
  20. ShadyDrifter

    ShadyDrifter Member

    Jan 8, 2019
    I'm significantly faster with a red dot. And when shooting for speed, my groups are half the size with far less flyers. My EDC is a g3 g19 with rm07 6moa dot IMG_20181224_114915.jpg
    Edit: that's an rm02 in the picture that has since been changed out
    azpoolguy and Whiten like this.

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