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I like 'em on a AR but not a handgun?

I was shooting my M&P M2.0 9mm today and then I started shooting terrible. I thought, what in the heck is goin on. I soon discovered the issue. One of my mounting screws had fallen out and the other one was loose. The gun came with a bunch of plates and screws already loaded with blue Loctite. I think I had removed and reinstalled them at some point for some reason if I remember correctly. That's why they backed out.

So, I just ended up removing the optic and I enjoyed shooting it more without. I've never cared for the co-witness tall sights while looking through the optic. I believe this may be my issue. My AR's with red dots have no iron sights and I like it that way. The sights on this gun and another one in 10mm I sold have the same tall sights and I don't like them with a red dot.

Anyone else have this issue besides me?
Unless you properly torqued the screws, this is user error and no fault of the system. Its not really any different than installing a rear iron sight without the required set screw in place.

Granted many of the factory RDS mounting systems (MOS/CORE) aren’t the best because they’re catering towards many different sights, but if installed correctly, most will work pretty well.


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Three white dots...the Toyota Camry of sights. They may be old and ordinary, but they work every day, every time. I've won a number of our monthly defensive pistols matches shooting these sights against a few red dots. It's all about what you like and what works best for YOU.

Assuming you have an open mind to try other things and know what works best for you. If you just went with the first thing given to you, making it work is not the same as finding what works best for you.


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Do you use all black sights on your guns without dots?
No I don’t. I prefer a black rear with a bright front, something like the Ameriglo Agents or Trijicon HDs. Dots in the rear make it harder for my eye to focus on the front sight.

I've got a little rubber 'booty' that fits one of my Holosuns.
Buddy gave it to me, I've never used it.....yet.

I am a bit concerned about something (pebble?) getting down into the emitter trench.

If I ever carry a red dot, I'll likely go with a closed emitter.
It’s worth considering but I wouldn’t be too concerned about it. I’ve had a dot on my primary gun since I think 2017 and the only emitter issue I’ve had was water on a DPP. I switched to the RMR because of that and while it wasn’t perfect, I used it in a torrential downpour during a pistol class in Hawaii and I could still perform fairly well.


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Good points.

I havent looked up the FBI reports in awhile, not sure what the latest most current stats are for but it doesnt take a lot of research to find situations where the shots were taken at greater distances (the mall earlier this year, church in Tx last year) situations like the grocery store in Buffalo where the shooter was in body armor so the accessible target zones were very small and one would be likely shooting at a distance. The number of shootings were the BG is using a carbine and as Frank points out most of us good guys dont walk around with one which means relying on a pistol. Do you want to engage a BG with a carbine at 5 yards or 25 yards? Your call.........


As for training at 25 yards with a pistol..........Ive commented before on other threads, I start every range session at 25 yards and close off the session at 25 yards. How you shoot cold at 25 on paper is telling. I cant think of a class I have attended in the last 3-5 years whether its a smaller local one or one with a big name (Healy, Panone, Blowers, etc) that doesnt have one or more 25 yard drills. Shooting paper at 25 tells you a lot, much like using a RDS, every mistake, failing, training scar in your fundamentals will show up. Whether you choose to pay attention to those, work on those - up to the individual.
Well said.

At the end of the day, I carry my gun more for my family than myself. I want offensive capability against a distant target with a long gun. It would suck, but I can do that with a pistol RDS. If my daughter isn’t by my side but is in trouble, I’m going hunting. That throws the whole 5-7yd argument in the trash.

And I can blast away at 5 yards on an incoming attacker, also with an RDS. If someone is arguing not even using sights, I don’t know how an argument against RDS because of being slower can even hold.


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Also in case it hasn’t been covered already, dots also help with moving targets, target focused shooting (it takes some serious discipline to remain front sight focused when there is an actual threat), and low/no light shooting.


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This video
is a good example of what a dot can do for accuracy while still acknowledging the delay some may see. I was slow from the draw on this. I also probably only shot maybe twice before this in the whole calendar year so not at the level of practice that I would like or used to be. Of course the unknown is how my time and accuracy would’ve compared to irons for the first shot but I’m confident that all others were at least as fast and far more accurate with the dot. I’ve never cleared a Texas star with irons.

Pistol is a stock Glock 45 aside from an Overwatch Precision NP3’d Minus Connector shooting 124gr Lawman. I usually shoot a comp’d G19 with heavy stipple and full Overwatch trigger and magwell so the G45 is far more basic.

It also shows how bad I struggled with the 3x mag and 10.5” gun on the 200yd stage against 4” plates but that’s besides the point.


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Definitely gave yourself a challenge shooting with at 10.5" gun at 200 yards!
It was a bit easier in other matches where they painted the steel in contrasting colors. Pretty sure this is the one where they painted the far stuff white which blended in with the Sandy dirt backstop. Couldn’t even see most of them…


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