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I just put a Leupold Delta point Pro on my Sig M-17, a real game changer hitting steel out to 65m, I'm still a but slow getting the red dot on target from the draw, but once I find it, it's shooting lights out. My 10m and 20m hits have improved, almost feels like I'm cheating.
 

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Dremel jockey
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I'm about 1000rds into handgun red dot.
About 800 of them through my Tisas 9mm 1911.
I'm improving every time I use it.

Hey Apollo, want to get together and compare notes?

E-mail is best for me:
rogersprecision at gmail.com

 

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I only shoot with red dots. The only gun I have that doesn't have a red dot is my garrison and that's because I just like the all stainless look.. but I cant shoot irons anymore. Scientifically, it doesn't make sense. Humans have always been target focused but we somehow decided to throw that all away once we got guns.

Red dot practice does get getting used to, but don't focus mainly on the dot. I also don't co-witness my irons with my red dot because back up irons are just that.. back ups. Also making sure the loctite is on the dot helps haha.

Something that also helps me is adjusting brightness of the dot. I like making it brighter when practicing close range shots and lighter for long range.
 

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I like 'em on a AR but not a handgun?

I was shooting my M&P M2.0 9mm today and then I started shooting terrible. I thought, what in the heck is goin on. I soon discovered the issue. One of my mounting screws had fallen out and the other one was loose. The gun came with a bunch of plates and screws already loaded with blue Loctite. I think I had removed and reinstalled them at some point for some reason if I remember correctly. That's why they backed out.

So, I just ended up removing the optic and I enjoyed shooting it more without. I've never cared for the co-witness tall sights while looking through the optic. I believe this may be my issue. My AR's with red dots have no iron sights and I like it that way. The sights on this gun and another one in 10mm I sold have the same tall sights and I don't like them with a red dot.

Anyone else have this issue besides me?
Do you think you would have had a more positive experience if you hadn't had the installation issues with the dot?

If iron sights work better for you, I don't see why you wouldn't keep using them.
 
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I converted to dots in 2020, initially because I wasn't able to see the front sights as well as I used to. Been shooting them for competition and in training since, probably around 3,500 rounds to date through four optics. My last class was with Tim Herron in February, a two-day action pistol oriented session with 800+ rounds with my Glock 19 Gen 5 MOS and HS507c. Shoot a Glock 34 Gen 5 MOS with another 507c in USPSA, and until recently have a P365X with a HS 407k, which I just sold to buy a EPS Carry, shortly.

I believe there are at least three very significant advantages to MRDS on a pistol.

1) If you are at an age where focusing on the front sight is problematic, seeing the dot becomes much, much easier. Most MRDS are virtually parallax free these days, meaning as long as your index is good enough to see the dot anywhere in the lens, when you press off the shot, the round will land where the dot is pointing.

2) All shooting is done with target focal plane. You are not going back and forth from near to far focus. Shooting with a dot focus makes shot calling faster. You can see, really see, where your round would land as soon as you break the shot. You don't need to see the holes. If you see an Alpha and a Charlie using the sight picture, then you know to shoot a make up shot.

3) Using a dot will make you a better shooter, and will carry over to iron sights. Incorporating the dot in Dry Practice has cleaned up my index and trigger control tremendously. I think this is an under appreciated benefit of MRDS. The sight is still wobbling around, just as before, it's that now you can see exactly where the dot is at the shot break. With this info, you can work on your grip and trigger control so that the shot breaks when the dot is on target.

Disadvantages of a dot include the learning curve, the added complexity of the various mounting systems, potential failure, battery life, and cost. The learning curve can be mitigated through training and dry practice. The physical aspects have gotten much, much better the last 2-3 years, to where I'm personally comfortable carrying with a dot and BUIS, every day. I mean, everybody weighs this differently and makes their own decision. You can absolutely do good work with iron sights, for sure, and if they work better for you, I'd keep doing that.
 

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Take off the iron sights for now.
With your empty gun and red dot on, practice drawing and pointing at the target. Your eyesight is focused on the target. When you bring the gun up, the red dot should just be there if you focus on your target.

I have a blue gun with an RMR on it in my mailbox and B8 targets pasted around the room for coworkers to practice sight picture with.
 

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Take off the iron sights for now.
With your empty gun and red dot on, practice drawing and pointing at the target. Your eyesight is focused on the target. When you bring the gun up, the red dot should just be there if you focus on your target.

I have a blue gun with an RMR on it in my mailbox and B8 targets pasted around the room for coworkers to practice sight picture with.
Sounds like a great place to work!
 

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I had the front sight on my shotgun fly off once. I hate iron sights on shotguns.......

On a serious note, a little dab of locktite and a proper inch lbs torque setting, you'll never have a problem. And yeah, I hate co-witness iron sights on a pistol (Love them on a AR though as long as they are folding). Handgun optics certainly are not for everyone, but it seems many people give up too soon and don't give themselves a chance to work thru the challenges. If you stick with it you will see the rewards of your efforts.
 

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I like 'em on a AR but not a handgun?

I was shooting my M&P M2.0 9mm today and then I started shooting terrible. I thought, what in the heck is goin on. I soon discovered the issue. One of my mounting screws had fallen out and the other one was loose. The gun came with a bunch of plates and screws already loaded with blue Loctite. I think I had removed and reinstalled them at some point for some reason if I remember correctly. That's why they backed out.

So, I just ended up removing the optic and I enjoyed shooting it more without. I've never cared for the co-witness tall sights while looking through the optic. I believe this may be my issue. My AR's with red dots have no iron sights and I like it that way. The sights on this gun and another one in 10mm I sold have the same tall sights and I don't like them with a red dot.

Anyone else have this issue besides me?
Unless you properly torqued the screws, this is user error and no fault of the system. Its not really any different than installing a rear iron sight without the required set screw in place.

Granted many of the factory RDS mounting systems (MOS/CORE) aren’t the best because they’re catering towards many different sights, but if installed correctly, most will work pretty well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

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Three white dots...the Toyota Camry of sights. They may be old and ordinary, but they work every day, every time. I've won a number of our monthly defensive pistols matches shooting these sights against a few red dots. It's all about what you like and what works best for YOU.

Assuming you have an open mind to try other things and know what works best for you. If you just went with the first thing given to you, making it work is not the same as finding what works best for you.


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But it does dance around while shooting fast and that I'm not so fond of.
Your iron sight does also. You just can’t see good enough to tell. 😂😂😂😂😂

The red dot is great at the diagnosis of issues. Everything you are seeing with the dot you are also doing with irons.
 

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But it does dance around while shooting fast and that I'm not so fond of.
Dots sure let you see how much you wiggle the muzzle around while aiming and then show you your recoil control, or lack thereof. The benefit is you get to use that info to improve your recoil control. At first I thought that seeing the dot movement was a problem until I started using the info to get a good strong/support hand balance and get the dot moving straight up and down during firing. Now it lets me know when I'm getting lazy or losing focus.
 

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Freedom Is Not Free
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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Do you think you would have had a more positive experience if you hadn't had the installation issues with the dot?

If iron sights work better for you, I don't see why you wouldn't keep using them.
I never shot my M&P without the optic until yesterday. The first thing I did after I brought it home was to install the HS507CX2 on it. I've shot maybe 200 rounds tops with the optic mounted before it came loose. And I'm sure it's my fault because I remember taking it off and reinstalling because I wasn't positive that I had the correct plate installed. I did not reapply Loctite and that was my fault and why one of the screws backed out and the other fell out.

I'm just use to shooting with iron sights and the three white dots are very quick to pick up for me. But they are a little fuzzy and the red dot definitely cures that issue making it much easier to aim. But I'm not a target shooter with my handguns. I shoot steel from 5 to 15 yards on average. Sometimes a little more. So I shoot with both eyes open, point and shoot. Even though I'm not concentrating on the sights I'm still aware of them. If that makes any sense. The red dot I like because it does allow me to shoot this way but I'm slower at it. I'm more accurate with the dot but slower. I know, I just need to practice, practice and then practice some more at it. It definitely takes time to get it down and takes patience.

When I took off the optic and shot my M&P M2.0 compact it was what I'm more accustomed to and is how I've been shooting for many years. It was also the first time I shot this gun without the optic mounted. It's just what I'm use to. But that doesn't mean that I can't learn to shoot just as fast and probably even a little more accurately with a red dot. I just need to practice. Lately I've mostly been shooting AR's through a high power scope and not shooting handguns hardly at all.
 

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Freedom Is Not Free
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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
I'm probably going to end up removing my iron sights, buy a mettle mounting plate after I get some more screws.
 
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