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I would be interested in Chucks view of the hardness of each. If I had to guess the ruger would be harder. Outside of the difficulty of hardness, which would he prefer to build on? Norc or ruger? @pistolwretch
I wanna know too! My vote is on the Norinco....I’ve heard the older ones were made from some really tough steel forgings.
 

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Why are Rugers and Kimbers so hated on...? I realize they are not Nighthawks. But they are solid, nice shooting guns. I Guess you gotta pay up to hang with the cool kids... But the Rugers and Kimbers are at a price point that allows us poor people to enjoy the 1911 platform.. as long as we dont mind hearing about our "sows ears" alot...
 

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:) You sure Ruger does forgings?????????
I am hoping he is in error, Ive liked and respected the quality of Caspian, would hate to not use them again in the future.
 

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Why are Rugers and Kimbers so hated on...? I realize they are not Nighthawks. But they are solid, nice shooting guns. I Guess you gotta pay up to hang with the cool kids... But the Rugers and Kimbers are at a price point that allows us poor people to enjoy the 1911 platform.. as long as we dont mind hearing about our "sows ears" alot...
Kimbers are (unfairly in my opinion) hated on due to internet stories of poor quality, they were the first to go to MIM parts and they did not do it well, they had a lot of issues, now days getting a decent kimber is just as likely as getting a decent SA out of the box but their reputation follows them and it impacts their resale value.

Rugers are hated due to Bill Ruger and again my opinion, generally fugly guns. Plenty of folks buy them, shoot them and like them though.

Neither are really good choices for a custom build with a top tier smith though as they wont attain / retain the value of the same build on a Colt gun.
 

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Kimbers are (unfairly in my opinion) hated on due to internet stories of poor quality, they were the first to go to MIM parts and they did not do it well, they had a lot of issues, now days getting a decent kimber is just as likely as getting a decent SA out of the box but their reputation follows them and it impacts their resale value.

Rugers are hated due to Bill Ruger and again my opinion, generally fugly guns. Plenty of folks buy them, shoot them and like them though.

Neither are really good choices for a custom build with a top tier smith though as they wont attain / retain the value of the same build on a Colt gun.
strange, i had 3 kimber custom by chuck. sold one for $10k, one for $7500 and the other i think for $8k
 

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:) You sure Ruger does forgings?????????
I am not sure about forgings, I would guess that with the amount of material that Pine Tree does, they’ve dabbled in forgings. Whether or not they have the capability to make forgings at Pine Tree is unknown to me.

As for those doubting this link between Ruger and Caspian, info below and a screenshot right from Gary Smith.

Pine Tree (owned and founded by Ruger) does a lot of investment casting for a lot of different industries.


Rectangle Font Screenshot Material property Technology
 

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I am not sure about forgings, I would guess that with the amount of material that Pine Tree does, they’ve dabbled in forgings. Whether or not they have the capability to make forgings at Pine Tree is unknown to me.

As for those doubting this link between Ruger and Caspian, info below and a screenshot right from Gary Smith.

Pine Tree (owned and founded by Ruger) does a lot of investment casting for a lot of different industries.


View attachment 820167
Yes Ruger uses investment castings which have come a long way but are not up there with forgings. That is why castings are not used on military aircraft. Gets technical but they are weaker ultimately.
 
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love these topics, folks saying what something is worth. only one that can say what the true value is is chuck, like i said earlier, he built it, he knows it and i doubt very seriously he built "just cause" and if he needed a barrel i am sure he could have convinced the owner to get a new barrel
To be fair, the market dictates value and in this case…it’s doing just that. I don’t know why you are taking umbrage with people stating that the base gun is hurting it’s resale/value. Considering the owner even stated that this was first Ruger build Chuck worked on, goes to show its not a popular choice.
 

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Why are Rugers and Kimbers so hated on...? I realize they are not Nighthawks. But they are solid, nice shooting guns. I Guess you gotta pay up to hang with the cool kids... But the Rugers and Kimbers are at a price point that allows us poor people to enjoy the 1911 platform.. as long as we dont mind hearing about our "sows ears" alot...
I can’t speak for anyone else but here is my experience: two kimbers, both had a lot of failures and were poorly manufactured/built. I’ve not heard any negative reports of the gun, but I despise that POS Bill Ruger and his advocacy of gun control.

So my dislike is hardly coming from a place of “stuck up” or “cool kids” mentality, rather it’s grounded in fact and firsthand experience.

strange, i had 3 kimber custom by chuck. sold one for $10k, one for $7500 and the other i think for $8k
Strange, you’re equating kimbers rebuilt by one of the most prominent smiths to “off the shelf” counterparts.
 

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To be fair, the market dictates value and in this case…it’s doing just that. I don’t know why you are taking umbrage with people stating that the base gun is hurting it’s resale/value. Considering the owner even stated that this was first Ruger build Chuck worked on, goes to show its not a popular choice.
Some folks just get off on taking umbrage for the sake of it unfortunately.........
 
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I can’t speak for anyone else but here is my experience: two kimbers, both had a lot of failures and were poorly manufactured/built. I’ve not heard any negative reports of the gun, but I despise that POS Bill Ruger and his advocacy of gun control.

So my dislike is hardly coming from a place of “stuck up” or “cool kids” mentality, rather it’s grounded in fact and firsthand experience.


Strange, you’re equating kimbers rebuilt by one of the most prominent smiths to “off the shelf” counterparts.
As far as Kimber goes.. Maybe i just lucked out and got one that works ? Bill is dead.. So you might want to let that go and give the Company a 2nd look.. It is certainly pro 2A now.. The AR-556 they sold me came with a 30rnd mag, and will take a 100rnd drum if i was so inclined. With that line of thinking you must hate Springfield Armory, and some others too.. ? Colt just sold to the commies... So now what..? I know.. If i don't like the snobbery, and the Kimber/Ruger bashing... Don't let the door hit me on the way out....lol. Bye..:)
 

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Lisa, Bender, et al, I like Kimbers, it bothers me that hardcore socialists bought Colt, I’ve been pooched at Colt, Springfield, etc.,etc.
Bender is right that most sell out given enough time and circumstances.
Bill Ruger lied to my face. It is hard for me to get by that with a company that still bears his name. I understand that they are Pro 2nd now. I MAY change my dug in attitude someday. I admitted that this one interests me.
 
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Lisa, Bender, et al, I like Kimbers, it bothers me that hardcore socialists bought Colt, I’ve been pooched at Colt, Springfield, etc.,etc.
Bender is right that most sell out given enough time and circumstances.
Bill Ruger lied to my face. It is hard for me to get by that with a company that still bears his name. I understand that they are Pro 2nd now. I MAY change my dug in attitude someday. I admitted that this one interests me.
Rugers HQ is in my home state. I’ve met and talked with the CEO on a couple of occasions and he appears to be a stand up guy. Very humble, intelligent and composed. I can’t imagine the stress they are under as a publicly traded gun manufacturer. People trying to fck them from all angles, especially being here in CT. I’m not advocating for them by any means but just providing insight as to what I’ve seen. Unfortunately most do sell out at some point and that isn’t an excuse by any means. but if we don’t support everyone in the Industry sooner or later these cucks trying to take us all down are going to have a competitive advantage
 

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Rugers HQ is in my home state. I’ve met and talked with the CEO on a couple of occasions and he appears to be a stand up guy. Very humble, intelligent and composed. I can’t imagine the stress they are under as a publicly traded gun manufacturer. People trying to fck them from all angles, especially being here in CT. I’m not advocating for them by any means but just providing insight as to what I’ve seen. Unfortunately most do sell out at some point and that isn’t an excuse by any means. but if we don’t support everyone in the Industry sooner or later these cucks trying to take us all down are going to have a competitive advantage
Very well stated Sir…….BRAVO
 

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Wen Chuck did the gun in question, the 1911’s from Ruger had just recently come out. If remember correctly, he wanted to work on a few to see what he thought of them as base guns. There was quite a bit of interest at that time in the guns, thinking they might be at least on par with Springfield. We must remember that they did not have their current reputation at the time the gun in question was built. I don’t know if Chuck would work on one today. Here are two that he did machining work on for me right about that same time. I still like them very much. I know that I could not sell them for anywhere near what a full build Colt/ Rogers gun would go for. But that bobbed nose though…..
 
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