Shoot them in the groin......

Discussion in 'Training' started by Dub, Sep 20, 2020.

  1. Dub

    Dub born in the wrong century

    Mar 19, 2017

    Very sorry to hear that.


    I hope the piece of crap perp gets a shank buried deep in him while in prison and dies from a horrid infection.
     
  2. Jimhoag

    Jimhoag In Kentucky

    Jun 14, 2013
    He didn't survive the arrest

    Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
     
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  3. Dub

    Dub born in the wrong century

    Mar 19, 2017

    Even better.

    Scumbag can rot. Hopefully he died before reproduction. No passing on his scumbag genetics.
     
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  4. nikerret

    nikerret Well-Known Member

    Mar 2, 2019
    I was taught to shoot the T, for instant shut-down. Some internet pulls:

    2CBFEB8D-F5EE-462C-9A8B-607C667BD3A1.jpeg

    5D9F219C-3379-4CA7-9522-C51BC5C3C995.jpeg

    If this shot is not possible, which is likely, or the shot must be taken quickly or as a reflex, aim center of mass.

    I’ve always been a fan of “the zipper”, which comes from the school of “a lot to the everywhere”.
    The pelvic region is a good place to start the zipper, but is a ways from center of mass.

    I recommend everyone do some reading from Force Science. Very good data.
     
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  5. Uncle Bob

    Uncle Bob Well-Known Member Supporting Addict

    Sep 22, 2017
    The way I was trained a long time ago was the Mozambique and it's why I still practice it. Close in and way to close for any comfort was what was called "The speed rock" which was one handed clear the holster and put rounds into the perp using your free hand to get just enough clearance. I'd have to demonstrate it to make it easier to understand.

    Head shots has more than one school of thought. I don't worry about it as long as I can place my shots when I need to. Edgers don't count.
     
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  6. 1911_Bandit

    1911_Bandit Batteries_included

    290
    Mar 5, 2020
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  7. Doc45

    Doc45 Well-Known Member

    Jan 26, 2018
    To be clear I don’t think anyone advocates groin/pelvic shots as primary targets. Another area however as a possible location to stop a continuing threat.
     
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  8. mikegalway

    mikegalway CEO of DILLIGAF industries Supporting Addict

    Feb 23, 2014
    One thing I like about Clint , he's to the point .
     
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  9. Dub

    Dub born in the wrong century

    Mar 19, 2017


    Exactly.

    Well stated.

    I should have been more clear in my initial post.....that is what I meant to inquire about....people making the groin shots the primary target.

    No doubt it's a righteous secondary target. That is all I meant to state....simply that there seemed to be a new emphasis from various people. I didn't know if there was some emergent common source.
     
    Doc45 likes this.
  10. Josh_Putman

    Josh_Putman Well-Known Member

    395
    Jun 17, 2014
    Sounds reasonable, especially if you have a daughter FB_IMG_1588966861903.jpg

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  11. Columbia

    Columbia Member

    56
    Oct 9, 2020
    In all practicality, this is the way gunfights usually go, from my experience. I've never heard it called "the zipper," but I love that name lol. We all train to shoot center mass or Mozambique/failure drills, but the reality is you usually just shoot at whatever is presented until the guy drops. Rarely, if ever, are you presented the perfect opportunity to punch out and take static shots. You're moving, he's moving, and you're just trying to put bullets in him before he puts bullets in you.

    That's why force on force training is such an important validation to skills you practice on the range. Skills are not the same as tactics, imo. You develop skills to better help you employ tactics. Skills you develop on the range, tactics are the employment of those skills, and you develop that in force on force training.

    As far as the groin stuff - years ago when I first got into SOF I was taught during a course that if you ever really fudge up and end up in a hand to hand situation, that if are unable to create space enough to get your rifle up, or if you'd really fudgeed up and were on your back and the bad guy was on top of you, then you should try to create enough space to get your pistol out of the bucket and shoot from retention into their hip, for a lot of the same reasoning everyone is talking about here - the large volume of arterial blood present by way of the common/internal/external iliac and femoral arteries, and the high likelihood of immobilizing the bad guy, allowing you to actually create space and finish the job if he's not done by way of rounds to his pelvic girdle. But this is by no means new, so I'm not sure why you're seeing a wave of people advocating for it, especially as a primary target.
     
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  12. nikerret

    nikerret Well-Known Member

    Mar 2, 2019
    Feel free to use the zipper terminology. It’s probably not mine. I’ve been using it so long I don’t know where it came from.

    You should consider your skills vs tactics verbiage stolen. It says what I’ve tried to say, but uses a lot less words and sounds much better.

    I would add that the full value of FoF cannot be had if you don’t take the opportunity to be the bad guy. I learned more, minute for minute, being a bad guy with Simunitions than I ever did being the good guy. As a side note, I would also like to share that the 5.56 FX rounds really hurt, from a full auto. Fortunately, most full autos won’t run reliably with FX.

    Are you willing to share the unit you were with and the years you were in?
     
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  13. Greg45acp

    Greg45acp Double Secret Banned Supporting Addict

    Oct 31, 2016
    To Paraphrase (closely) what Clint said to my class at TR:

    I never said a crotch shot is a fight ending hit, I said it's a nice "Hello, how do you do?"
     
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  14. blamo

    blamo Well-Known Member

    495
    Jun 16, 2018
    Growing up we were taught the zipper and called it that.
     
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  15. Columbia

    Columbia Member

    56
    Oct 9, 2020
    You're spot on with the bit about seeing both sides with FoF training. Once you integrate roleplayers, and guys rotate through the different roles, you really start to make the connections in your brain and figure out what works and what doesn't.

    I don't ever push dudes I'm teaching to "scan" or take some step laterally or whatever as they draw. We work skills on the range, and tactics in the house. I don't believe in trying to bridge the two at the range, because ultimately you just end up with range theatrics, however well intentioned.

    I was a fireteam leader in ranger battalion, was there from 2011-2016, then did some other stuff, and now I'm married and trying to do the whole family thing so I just got picked up as a sheriff's deputy.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2020
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