[Bloodhound]

So,
I've got the AR bug again, and I am dead set on getting one in pistol configuration.
My "Go To" rifle is just not as light, or maneuverable as I'd like in its current configuration. Especially to be used as an HD, or Truck Gun. So, I figured I'd get something shorter, faster, lighter etc...

While looking through the plethora of different companies, and options, I learned about Sons Of Liberty Gun Works. The few reviews I've found online were all very positive, even Garand Thumb did a video on their 13.7" AR, and was pleased. (I enjoy his reviews.)
I especially liked the way their upper/lower receivers mate together, with a very snug, near perfect fit from the looks of it.

So the question is, has anyone ever tried any of their Rifles, Pistols, Carbines, or other products?

If anyone has any experiences to share I'd be grateful!

Thanks!

 

[Barstool Aviator]

I hear only great things about their AR's. A lot of guys who use the AR's hard highly recommend them.

 

[Bloodhound]

From what I understand, they also have an amazing LEO program.

I've read, if an officer uses their SOLGW rifle in the line of duty, they'll issue that officer a "loaner" rifle if the need arises, or until said rifle is released from custody.

-That's pretty awesome.

 

[cougartracks]

From what I understand, they also have an amazing LEO program.

I've read, if an officer uses their SOLGW rifle in the line of duty, they'll issue that officer a "loaner" rifle if the need arises, or until said rifle is released from custody.

-That's pretty awesome.

FYI I believe Salient has the same deal with their pistols. Kind of off topic but I figured a good place to slide this in.

 

[Bloodhound]

FYI I believe Salient has the same deal with their pistols. Kind of off topic but I figured a good place to slide this in.

Awesome! Honestly, the more that do it, the better.
I can respect, and appreciate any company that takes care of our Men & Women in uniform.

Salient is a bit steep for my tastes, but they do create some crazy cool looking firearms, and parts.

 

[FWoo45]

From what I understand, they also have an amazing LEO program.

I've read, if an officer uses their SOLGW rifle in the line of duty, they'll issue that officer a "loaner" rifle if the need arises, or until said rifle is released from custody.

-That's pretty awesome.

A few great 1911 smiths have a policy that if you use their gun in a defensive shooting and it is taken for the foreseeable future, you go to the front of the line. This hasn't happened to my knowledge but it's nice to know they want their guns carried not babied safe queens.

 

[Sniper 217]

SOLGW is GTG! Good people too!

 

[Au Jus in Bello]

SOLGW builds hard use ARs and they are highly respected by the serious AR community for their build quality and parts choices (I've built my entire set of spare AR replacement parts around their stuff). As far as the rifles themselves and the company standing by their product, solid choice.

The only knock against them is that as a smaller manufacturer, they've sometimes had problems keeping up with orders and keeping communication lines open; this was especially true in the early going and during the 2016 panic. They acknowledged the issues and say they've corrected it, and admittedly, I've seen fewer complaints this way over the last year or so.

They're also very approachable on social media and have a presence at M4carbine.net if you're having trouble with an order call/email for some reason isn't helping.

For similar high quality and comparable prices, you can compare SOLGW to BCM, Daniel Defense and Sionics and see what works best for you.

 

[cundiff5535]

I know Geissele has an amazing Leo discount right now. There was a write up on here about the rifle a while back.

If it’s me, it’s ALWAYS KAC. I feel like once you are in the know about them, there would never be a reason not to buy one, outside of price.

Even if price is a problem, just get a KAC pistol upper and then throw your choice of pistol lower on it. KAC ALL DAY EVERY DAY.

 

[Bloodhound]

I appreciate all of the feedback, and recommendations...
By all means keep the feedback coming!

I'm not an indecisive person, but I know there are a TON of options out there.
In the past, I've usually chose DD as my "company of choice", but I also want to make sure that I don't write anyone off... Give everyone a fair shake as it were...
Not to mention, there are a lot more advancements out there that weren't available just a few short years ago, -(when I bought my last one.)
To be honest, I don't think you can lose in this situation.

SOLGW seems to be top notch, and GTG!
I'll be sure to do some additional reading, and research before I pull the proverbial trigger.
I will most definitely be sure to post what I end up with.

 

[Bloodhound]

I know Geissele has an amazing Leo discount right now. There was a write up on here about the rifle a while back.

If it’s me, it’s ALWAYS KAC. I feel like once you are in the know about them, there would never be a reason not to buy one, outside of price.

Even if price is a problem, just get a KAC pistol upper and then throw your choice of pistol lower on it. KAC ALL DAY EVERY DAY.

Post some pics! I'm interested in seeing what everyone is running, and learning why.

 

[cundiff5535]

interested in seeing what everyone is running, and learning why.

This is a easy answer, and one worth noting. Knights has focused almost exclusively on selling weapon systems and suppressors to the government for our troops, specifically our Special Operations community since those units often have a lot of acquisition discretion that the regular Army, Navy, and Marines don't enjoy.

Knight's has the distinction of being the last company to employ Eugene Stoner, and his influence is apparent in the larger SR-25 as well as the refinements to the smaller platform that is the SR-15/SR-16 family. In the last few years Knight's civilian market business seems to have picked up and they're making a more distinct effort to offer high quality hard use guns to regular law abiding citizens. Not that they ever discouraged it, just that up until the last few years finding any KAC complete rifle, carbine, or upper was like finding a unicorn on the civilian market.

The rifle I mentioned buying, the SR-15 E3 Mod 2 M-Lok is a far superior rifle to anything else on the market (IMO).

to answer the question of “why”, “what is it”, and “how is it any different than any other AR variant”... That is a fair question and at the heart of the SR-15, what makes it different is the E3 bolt and the KAC approach to the gas system. There are other nice touches and a lot of quality parts, but what makes it tick is the bolt and the changes to how the DI gas system is implemented.

THIS ALONE IS WHY YOU SHOULD BUY IT OVER ALL OTHERS, period dot the end.

So about that bolt.... it is different than a standard AR bolt. To begin with KAC implemented the SR-25 like changes to bolt lug geometry that Stoner helped refine later in his life. The lugs are rounded where they meet the bolt body, both at the rear of each lug where lateral bolt thrust loads are present, and in between the lugs on the sides where rotational thrust will be present. This is a known method of reducing the possibility of cracking, and reducing crack propagation. In the interests of reducing bolt lug cracking the bolt face is supported where the normal AR bolt is relieved for the extractor. By designing the part in this manner the bolt lugs adjacent to the extractor are much more well supported against rotational thrust loads. Another effort in the crusade against premature bolt failures is the bolt cam pin hole is smaller in diameter leaving more material in the bolt tail area and increasing strength. Finally unlike a standard AR bolt, which will usually be made from Carpenter 158 steel, the KAC E3 is made from a "proprietary" alloy. The "proprietary" alloy is rumored to be AerMet 100 which is more or less a super steel used for aerospace applications, and of the 3 AerMet alloys has the highest resistance to crack propagation. AerMet 100 is also popular in the auto racing community as a material for output shafts because it is so tough. Unfortunately it costs a lot not only for the material but to machine and heat treat it. Of course KAC is mum on what the alloy actually is, but there are no reported failures of a KAC SR-15 bolt in the wild. I was able to find one where the extractor got bent up my a case head blow out, but the bolt itself was good to go just needed a new extractor.

The gas system... First of all the gas system, the difference is the attachment method of the gas manifold/gas block, instead of dimples in the barrel and set screws or a roll pin, or taper pin, KAC has threaded the outside portion of the barrel ahead of the gas block. On this threaded area a castle nut is torqued down against the KAC gas block, the inside diameter of the block must be tapered a bit, and so must the outside diameter of the barrel where it mounts; the castle nut being torqued down creates a very tight secure seal as the tapered ID of block is forced onto the cone OD of the barrel.

On top of the gas manifold where the gas tube mounts there is another change, instead of the gas tube inserting into the gas block the end of the tube is flanged to fit over a nipple shaped outlet on the gas block with a threaded area behind it; over which a nut is torqued down forcing a tight leak proof seal here as well. All of these changes allow a relatively small gas port to be utilized for the gas system length, resulting in a very very smooth shooting gun. Even with the stock 3 prong flash hider, which does nothing to mitigate recoil or muzzle climb, the gun stays pretty flat, and recoil is negligible.

The barrel on all KAC rifles is fantastic, KAC doesn't want to share with everyone what the alloy is, but Ballistic Radio put 20,000 rounds through one and never cleaned it and got it really hot... and it was still turning in 1" groups at 100 yards (on a carbine rifle-not pistol) at the end; so whatever it is it's pretty tough. The contour is not heavy but it's not quite a pencil contour either, there is no Government Profile stupidity going on before the gas block.

Regardless of all other things, bolt and gas system are why KAC.

 

[Bloodhound]

This is a easy answer, and one worth noting. Knights has focused almost exclusively on selling weapon systems and suppressors to the government for our troops, specifically our Special Operations community since those units often have a lot of acquisition discretion that the regular Army, Navy, and Marines don't enjoy.

Knight's has the distinction of being the last company to employ Eugene Stoner, and his influence is apparent in the larger SR-25 as well as the refinements to the smaller platform that is the SR-15/SR-16 family. In the last few years Knight's civilian market business seems to have picked up and they're making a more distinct effort to offer high quality hard use guns to regular law abiding citizens. Not that they ever discouraged it, just that up until the last few years finding any KAC complete rifle, carbine, or upper was like finding a unicorn on the civilian market.

The rifle I mentioned buying, the SR-15 E3 Mod 2 M-Lok is a far superior rifle to anything else on the market (IMO).

to answer the question of “why”, “what is it”, and “how is it any different than any other AR variant”... That is a fair question and at the heart of the SR-15, what makes it different is the E3 bolt and the KAC approach to the gas system. There are other nice touches and a lot of quality parts, but what makes it tick is the bolt and the changes to how the DI gas system is implemented.

THIS ALONE IS WHY YOU SHOULD BUY IT OVER ALL OTHERS, period dot the end.

So about that bolt.... it is different than a standard AR bolt. To begin with KAC implemented the SR-25 like changes to bolt lug geometry that Stoner helped refine later in his life. The lugs are rounded where they meet the bolt body, both at the rear of each lug where lateral bolt thrust loads are present, and in between the lugs on the sides where rotational thrust will be present. This is a known method of reducing the possibility of cracking, and reducing crack propagation. In the interests of reducing bolt lug cracking the bolt face is supported where the normal AR bolt is relieved for the extractor. By designing the part in this manner the bolt lugs adjacent to the extractor are much more well supported against rotational thrust loads. Another effort in the crusade against premature bolt failures is the bolt cam pin hole is smaller in diameter leaving more material in the bolt tail area and increasing strength. Finally unlike a standard AR bolt, which will usually be made from Carpenter 158 steel, the KAC E3 is made from a "proprietary" alloy. The "proprietary" alloy is rumored to be AerMet 100 which is more or less a super steel used for aerospace applications, and of the 3 AerMet alloys has the highest resistance to crack propagation. AerMet 100 is also popular in the auto racing community as a material for output shafts because it is so tough. Unfortunately it costs a lot not only for the material but to machine and heat treat it. Of course KAC is mum on what the alloy actually is, but there are no reported failures of a KAC SR-15 bolt in the wild. I was able to find one where the extractor got bent up my a case head blow out, but the bolt itself was good to go just needed a new extractor.

The gas system... First of all the gas system, the difference is the attachment method of the gas manifold/gas block, instead of dimples in the barrel and set screws or a roll pin, or taper pin, KAC has threaded the outside portion of the barrel ahead of the gas block. On this threaded area a castle nut is torqued down against the KAC gas block, the inside diameter of the block must be tapered a bit, and so must the outside diameter of the barrel where it mounts; the castle nut being torqued down creates a very tight secure seal as the tapered ID of block is forced onto the cone OD of the barrel.

On top of the gas manifold where the gas tube mounts there is another change, instead of the gas tube inserting into the gas block the end of the tube is flanged to fit over a nipple shaped outlet on the gas block with a threaded area behind it; over which a nut is torqued down forcing a tight leak proof seal here as well. All of these changes allow a relatively small gas port to be utilized for the gas system length, resulting in a very very smooth shooting gun. Even with the stock 3 prong flash hider, which does nothing to mitigate recoil or muzzle climb, the gun stays pretty flat, and recoil is negligible.

The barrel on all KAC rifles is fantastic, KAC doesn't want to share with everyone what the alloy is, but Ballistic Radio put 20,000 rounds through one and never cleaned it and got it really hot... and it was still turning in 1" groups at 100 yards (on a carbine rifle-not pistol) at the end; so whatever it is it's pretty tough. The contour is not heavy but it's not quite a pencil contour either, there is no Government Profile stupidity going on before the gas block.

Regardless of all other things, bolt and gas system are why KAC.

Solid info right there, and a very positive vote for KAC.
I appreciate your input, and taking the time to share your knowledge with me.

 

[Sniper 217]

I’m a KAC fanboy as well. It would be my rifle of choice if I could only have one.

 

[Bloodhound]

I’m a KAC fanboy as well. It would be my rifle of choice if I could only have one.

I appreciate your thoughts on the subject.
Everyone I've contacted on the subject of AR's has stated that KAC is a solid choice.
While that doesn't mean SOLGW is completely off of the table, I have certainly been looking much harder at KAC as an option.

Thanks again folks.

 

[Kodiak61]

I’m an absolute AR snob. This sickness has been developed over the course of many years of owning just about every AR there is.

I currently run a Hodge Mod-1 and a couple Knights in different configurations.

The next AR I purchase will be a SOLGW.

Listening to the industry experts on Primary and Secondary podcast has convinced me that they’re top quality builds.

I have visited their shop on the south side of town, great guys who build things right.

 

[Trumpet]

I don't own any of their stuff, but all accounts point to SOLGW being about as "legit" as it gets.

 

[sidewaysil80]

I mean, at the end of the day to the manufacture anything or are they just an assembler like BCM.

When it comes to a duty rifle or hard use, I really prefer the colt 6920. Reason being is that’s the only rifle that has gone through the R&D, trials, testing, and actual rigors of combat and hard use. (I guess FN too, but I don’t know if their rifles are same as their .mil rifle like 6920 to M4)

I’m not a “mil-spec” fanboy either, but I get a warm and fuzzy knowing my rifles are quite literally battle proven and (to include my Geissele rifle) everything is made in house and not merely assembled and function tested.

EDIT:
Hard pass. Just browsed their site, other then a rifle case and three no name magazines, some swag...I don’t see what they offer over other companies. Since they’re just using off the shelf parts I’d rather save money, build it myself, and have peace of mind knowing I did it 100% correctly and had control over parts used. If that’s intimidating or you want an off the shelf rifle, I’d 100% pick something with more use and track record.

 

[Trumpet]

I mean, at the end of the day to the manufacture anything or are they just an assembler like BCM.

When it comes to a duty rifle or hard use, I really prefer the colt 6920. Reason being is that’s the only rifle that has gone through the R&D, trials, testing, and actual rigors of combat and hard use. (I guess FN too, but I don’t know if their rifles are same as their .mil rifle like 6920 to M4)

I’m not a “mil-spec” fanboy either, but I get a warm and fuzzy knowing my rifles are quite literally battle proven and (to include my Geissele rifle) everything is made in house and not merely assembled and function tested.

EDIT:
Hard pass. Just browsed their site, other then a rifle case and three no name magazines, some swag...I don’t see what they offer over other companies. Since they’re just using off the shelf parts I’d rather save money, build it myself, and have peace of mind knowing I did it 100% correctly and had control over parts used. If that’s intimidating or you want an off the shelf rifle, I’d 100% pick something with more use and track record.

Dunno. Sounds pretty legit to me...

Sons of Liberty Gun Works Bolt Carrier Group HPT/MPI

Bolt:

Precision machined from Carpenter Technology No. 158 alloy,
Heat treated per mil-spec,
Shot peened per ASTM B851/SAE AMS2430S,
Vibratory tumbled
Individual high pressure/proof (HP)
Full Auto test fired as an assembly
Individual magnetic particle inspection ASTM E1444/E1444M (MP)
Markings deep laser engraved (SP=Shot Peened, HP=High Pressure Tested, MP=Magnetic Particle Inspection.)

Extractor:

Precision machined from 4340 tool steel alloy per SAE AMS6415T/AMS6484D (vs 4140),
Heat treated
Shot peen per ASTM B851/SAE AMS2430S.
Extractor Retaining Pin:

Precision machined and ground S7 Tool Steel
Heat treated per ASTM A681-08
Shot peened per mil-spec print
Manganese phosphate

Extractor Spring:

Tactical Springs/Sprinco 5 coil, ASTM Grade A401 Chrome Silicon wire stock
Heat treated
Stress relieved, Molybdenum-Disulfide infused
Cryogenic processed (all post winding)
Mil-spec black insert/synthetic elastomer extractor buffer (nitrile-butadiene, shore hardness 80+/-5 durometer per MIL-PRF-6855)

Ejector:

S7 Tool Steel
Heat treated per ASTM A681-08
Shot peened per Mil-Spec
Manganese phosphate
Ejector Spring:

Heat treated
Mil Spec
Gas Rings:

Standard stainless steel per Mil-Spec X3

Carrier:

Machined from AISI 8620 aircraft qualty alloy per ASTM A108/A322-13
Full auto profile
Heat treated
Carburized/strain relieved, hard chrome bore
Precision ground gas key interface
Sons of Liberty Battle Flag logo deep laser engraved
Manganese phosphate

Gas Key:

Machined from 4130 chromoly steel alloy per ASTM A108/A322-13
Heat treated, hard chrome internal
Manganese phosphate
Permatex sealed
Grade 8 hex screws torqued and staked all per mil-spec

Cam Pin:

Precision machined 4340 chromoly steel alloy per SAE AMS6415T/AMS6484D
Heat treated/processed per mil-spec
Manganese phosphate
Solid film lubricant applied and cured per mil-spec

Firing Pin:

Precision machined 8640 steel alloy
Heat treated/processed per mil-spec
Hard chrome plate
Firing Pin Retaining Pin:

Precision machined from 1038 carbon steel
Heat treated/processed per mil-spec
Manganese phosphate

Per Chad Albrecht (AR armorer and owner of SOTAR) "Lots of companies say they check those points you mentioned, but few are very consistent BCG's when you inspect, test, and gauge them. SOLGW are extremely consistent at this time."

 

[Trumpet]

I mean, at the end of the day to the manufacture anything or are they just an assembler like BCM.

When it comes to a duty rifle or hard use, I really prefer the colt 6920. Reason being is that’s the only rifle that has gone through the R&D, trials, testing, and actual rigors of combat and hard use. (I guess FN too, but I don’t know if their rifles are same as their .mil rifle like 6920 to M4)

I’m not a “mil-spec” fanboy either, but I get a warm and fuzzy knowing my rifles are quite literally battle proven and (to include my Geissele rifle) everything is made in house and not merely assembled and function tested.

EDIT:
Hard pass. Just browsed their site, other then a rifle case and three no name magazines, some swag...I don’t see what they offer over other companies. Since they’re just using off the shelf parts I’d rather save money, build it myself, and have peace of mind knowing I did it 100% correctly and had control over parts used. If that’s intimidating or you want an off the shelf rifle, I’d 100% pick something with more use and track record.

Also keep in mind very few, if any makers actually make everything in house. Look on your small Colt, FN, and Geissele parts. If you see an "S", it's made by Schmid. To a certain extent everyone uses "off the shelf" parts.