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Official Hi-Point Brand Representative
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Great video!

When I was very little, Dad told me, in a gunfight, that it’s better to be really fast and decently accurate instead of decently fast and really accurate.

I’ve always chewed on that a bit. Is it right? I’m not sure, but it’s what I’ve trained for.
 

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The Tinker
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You can never miss fast enough
Yup, heard that many years ago. Never prevented me from running on the ragged edge though. :)

(that might be the reason it took so long for me to make Master Class...)
 

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The Tinker
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Great video!

When I was very little, Dad told me, in a gunfight, that it’s better to be really fast and decently accurate instead of decently fast and really accurate.

I’ve always chewed on that a bit. Is it right? I’m not sure, but it’s what I’ve trained for.
There was a scenario once where two guys (both had guns drawn) were maneuvering towards each other and Bad Guy got the drop on Good Guy. Good Guy knew he was dead, but decided to literally pull his legs up and drop towards the ground while twisting and snapping a shot at Bad Guy. Bad Guy was hit in the shoulder, causing him to stagger a bit and that gave Good Guy enough time to hit the ground on his back and put three center mass in Bad Guy.

Had Good Guy taken the time to align his sights he may have not made it. We'll never know though.
 

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Official Hi-Point Brand Representative
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There was a scenario once where a two guys (both had guns drawn) were maneuvering towards each other and Bad Guy got the drop on Good Guy. Good Guy knew he was dead, but decided to literally pull his legs up and drop towards the ground while twisting and snapping a shot at Bad Guy. Bad Guy was hit in the shoulder, causing him to stagger a bit and that gave Good Guy enough time to hit the ground on his back and put three center mass in Bad Guy.

Had Good Guy taken the time to align his sights he may have not made it. We'll never know though.
That illustrates the point 100%

Getting that first hit fast can buy you some time. A lot of the guys I train with get some impressively accurate hits on steel (right where the heart would be as an example), but taking the time to line up everything perfectly isn’t my bag. I’ll take a flash sight picture (if I’m even using the sights) and a bunch of hits in the general torso area anyday. I’ll somtimes get 3 hits before they get their one. I want the inertia of the fight to be in my favor.
 

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It's an important discussion and debate to have. The goal of combat shooting is to get effective rounds on target as quickly as possible. I intentionally use the word "effective" rather than "accurate" to make a point. People who think the goal in a gunfight is to put bullets through the same hole are going to get dead in a hurry. And "effective" group into center mass is the goal, as quickly as possible. Since the vast majority of handgun fights are taking place in under 20 feet or less, you can drill, drill, drill to draw, present and fire effectively and really work on these skills. This is why I really like "The Test" as a great drill that brings all the elements together and helps you work on the balance of speed and effective shot placement.
 

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Official Hi-Point Brand Representative
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It's an important discussion and debate to have. The goal of combat shooting is to get effective rounds on target as quickly as possible. I intentionally use the word "effective" rather than "accurate" to make a point. People who think the goal in a gunfight is to put bullets through the same hole are going to get dead in a hurry. And "effective" group into center mass is the goal, as quickly as possible. Since the vast majority of handgun fights are taking place in under 20 feet or less, you can drill, drill, drill to draw, present and fire effectively and really work on these skills. This is why I really like "The Test" as a great drill that brings all the elements together and helps you work on the balance of speed and effective shot placement.
Link to “the test” please!
 

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The Tinker
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That illustrates the point 100%

Getting that first hit fast can buy you some time. A lot of the guys I train with get some impressively accurate hits on steel (right where the heart would be as an example), but taking the time to line up everything perfectly isn’t my bag. I’ll take a flash sight picture (if I’m even using the sights) and a bunch of hits in the general torso area anyday. I’ll somtimes get 3 hits before they get their one. I want the inertia of the fight to be in my favor.
When I was shoot/practicing every week, I never used my sights inside 15 yds.

In USPSA competitions I tried to slow down to get as good a hits as I could get while still moving quickly. In Steel Challenge shooting, where there is no 'A' zone, I ran much faster. I was shooting a stage called Outer Limits one time and I heard a guy make a comment behind me about how I was shooting the stage almost as fast as Smoke-and-Hope. :)
 

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Fictional Western Sage
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It's an important discussion and debate to have. The goal of combat shooting is to get effective rounds on target as quickly as possible. I intentionally use the word "effective" rather than "accurate" to make a point. People who think the goal in a gunfight is to put bullets through the same hole are going to get dead in a hurry. And "effective" group into center mass is the goal, as quickly as possible. Since the vast majority of handgun fights are taking place in under 20 feet or less, you can drill, drill, drill to draw, present and fire effectively and really work on these skills. This is why I really like "The Test" as a great drill that brings all the elements together and helps you work on the balance of speed and effective shot placement.
What agency/department do you work for?
 

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Being old sucks! I spend a fair amount of time drawing and shooting with a shot timer. Granted, in the winter I can't/won't do that due to the extreme cold. Indoor ranges don't allow drawing from a holster. It has been said that to be proficient you should be able to draw and shoot in 1.5 seconds or less from concealment. My issue is the eyes. I draw and shoot from a timer in 2.0 seconds. Probably .5 seconds of which is time for my eyes to focus on the front sight. Any suggestions? That is shooting from 10 yds or more. If it were less than that I would point and shoot.
 

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I was always told to work on the Accuracy and the Speed will come as you gain skills and muscle memory.

Karsten
That is true, but ... you do have to push yourself and the best way I know how to do that is to run timed drills. The clock doesn't lie. And you also have to understand that the kind of "accuracy" required in Bullseye competitions, or in other competitions, is not the kind of "accuracy" required by combat/fighting with a pistol. Hence my earlier comment about effective shot placement....I have seen a lot of guys come out to our training facility who are good "gamers" but fall to pieces during stress drills in combat handgun classes. They are so focussed on making "just the right" shot their speed suffers, often rather dramatically.
 

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Oh well if you are too slow does not matter if you are accurate and if you are fast but not accurate you are toast as well. Why I prefer very long range where my expertise is---but unfortunately the bad guys do not give you that opportunity :)

I just go with medium fast but bullseye accurate. It is all about being smooth as glass. It is also about range and shot placement. Have shot quite a few live running targets some pretty good sized with a pistol but they don't shoot back. If I am drawing down with one of my big boy 454 snubbies it will be ugly on the receiving end hell it is bad on the giving end! Getting my new Gemini 44 I posted a thread on last week on Monday (been out of town this week at the ranch) so it did not ship until today. That one would be a good revolver to practice SD drills with.
 

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That is true, but ... you do have to push yourself and the best way I know how to do that is to run timed drills. The clock doesn't lie. And you also have to understand that the kind of "accuracy" required in Bullseye competitions, or in other competitions, is not the kind of "accuracy" required by combat/fighting with a pistol. Hence my earlier comment about effective shot placement....I have seen a lot of guys come out to our training facility who are good "gamers" but fall to pieces during stress drills in combat handgun classes. They are so focussed on making "just the right" shot their speed suffers, often rather dramatically.
Years ago I was taught to work on accuracy 1st......This was my IPSC Years and it was hard at 1st not the want to blaze through a course of fire after watching the hot shots do it. I would slip up now and then and the speed cost me dearly.

Later as a NROI Cert R.O. with new shooters we would have then WALK through the various courses of fire until we were comfortable with them......The ladies didn't mind the walking and most would make all A hits blowing the guys away.

Karsten
 
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