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Training or Another Firearm?

1.1K views 38 replies 26 participants last post by  Yoemen66  
#1 ·
Given your current skill level would you benefit more from a faster better more feature laden firearm or Training?

If so would that training be skills based or defensive centered?

Given training can run 40 to 100 dollars per hour is that a fair trade to consider?
 
#7 ·
I love the comradery with my fellow trainees and we inspire each other to get more accurate and faster.
The trainers get jazzed when we get to going with each other I think that makes them work even harder to challenge us further.
 
#8 ·
Recently did my first carbine class. Learned that my rifle is too heavy, my LPVO is mounted too low, and most of my equipment is wrong.

So there’s that…. Really have to push yourself and your gear to figure out what works for you.

or you can just buy a new gun and call it good.
 
#9 ·
Hands down, without a question, training. I love my guns WAY too much and I am bogged down by no less than 30 cartridges alone, not to mention all the stuff for those cartridges. I very much enjoy myself and my life is built around it. I know the absolute truth is that if I put all of that into one gun??? Or ten guns, even? I'd be very good with that gun. I am familiar and I would like to think that I'm even "good", but more than anything I will be honest about it and I do not train as much as I should, much less "could" with my EDC alone.
 
#29 ·
Merton,
I have been eliminating (as hard as that is) excess calibers in favor of upgrading current calibers to the next level.
It has been a very satisfying voyage! Don't stop training as you will never really arrive.
As a bonus my safe has more room.
 
#10 ·
I can tell you from my experience that training far out weighs another firearm. The first one on one training I did I brought six firearms. Trainer was a marine vet, cop, swat team member. He looked at my bag of guns and looked at me and said “pick one”. “I’m not spending two hours trying to figure out which one shoots best without ever seeing you shoot.” I asked him which one would you pick - “Pick the 320. (this was over 8 years ago before all news and before you could send it back for whatever sig did to them. I brought 4 p series sigs and an sig 1911. it was the best advice. For me and only me, going to the range with little or no foundation and slapping paper 200 times was never going to help me. I took 4 training sessions with him and he always started with the fundamentals and always progressed from there. He gave me drills to work on my own and really stressed the importance of dry fire practice more than anything else. It is fun to shoot live rounds. I have found that the more dry fire practice I do the less my skills diminish. Training is always the way to go. The best part is that he really didn’t care how I felt. He knew that I wanted to be proficient with a firearm and defend myself. That was always the goal. That said I recently moved and haven’t been able to shoot for 6 weeks. Guess what. I went to the range today and just focused on the fundamentals at 7-10 yds. Slow and easy.

Best of luck.
 
#15 ·
Agreed re: optics on handguns. I think they are really ugly and I hate electronics on/in anything like this.
But…
They are total game changers from what I have seen. In my admittedly very short time with optic pistols, I am already seeing some real improvement. The best part: my iron sight shooting is better because of it
 
#17 ·
Training!

Now please forgive me being so forward and brash, harsh possibly.

But your question shows that you just don't know. Look at the responses, pretty much 100% in the TRAINING camp. The gun might make you better, easier perhaps (red dot) but most of us have a lot to learn before that happens.

I have friends that shoot, many are former cops. Many continue to buy new guns, looking for nirvana I suppose, but wouldn't spend a dime on training. It shows. I've offered to work with them at a range where we can actually shoot, none of this stand at the line and pretend to shoot bullseye. Draw from a holster, move identify targets, mag changes and do double taps. Nope, not interested.

I wish you well and hope you'll follow the training path. It's addicting, be prepared.

Jim
 
#31 ·
May be a little harsh, but truer words have never been spoken!

As long as a pistol is safe and operates at as close to 100% of the time as you can get, knowing how to use a pistol in ANY defensive situation is the ONLY way to improve your chances of survival and even just "shoot better".
And, since ALL mechanical devices can fail (even the ones with all the latest and greatest "bells and whistles"), proper training will help a shooter to handle even a failure to fire situation and likely survive that too!

Training, training and more training...
 
#19 ·
Training, and it doesn't need to be high dollar courses necessarily if you have the basics down and push forward in a positive way. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

If you're shooting matches you learn things from better shooters. Years ago when I shot IPSC/IDPA with odd twists to it I shot my 1911 45, Beretta 92 and a revolver, those and a 22 for pins along with a shotgun steel plate mowdown with only 5 in and reload 5 more only for 10 on 10 pepper poppers. Shotgun was easy until a friend stopped by with an M1Super90 with speedloaders, the run&gun I went from C class to low Master within 2yrs and I used it as self defense training over gaming like a few did. We set up some off the wall courses of fire you won't see in sanctioned matches though.
 
#21 ·
I don’t think you’ll find anyone who owns at least one decent gun and is serious about shooting who would not say training.

That said, I will admit that buying ammo is not nearly as fun as buying another gun. Frankly even finishing in progress builds isn’t as fun as buying another gun.
 
#22 ·
For myself: New cool gun ie: Rogers. I need to re-arm a bit. I’m about “trained” at this point. 😂 YMWDV. Seriously, good training is never a bad investment .
 
#23 ·
Training, although with the caveat that taking your 50th Pistol class isn't going to teach you a bunch you didn't know, unless your trying to pick up some tidbits to use as an instructor.

I'll stretch it and say something "training related" as well- matches, ammo, something dry fire related like weighted mags or VR, a membership at a range where you can draw and shoot, etc. Maybe not a class, but something to make YOU a better shooter.

Course if you haven't done any training, then absolutely 100 % a training class.

As for the training, I would START with skills, get a VERY solid base of understanding, then move to "tactics" or "defensive" stuff. Knowing how to one hand clear type 3 malfunctions or work cover is a lot less important than being able to shoot well. What I'm saying is I'd rather someone had a fast draw stroke and good recoil control then I would they be able to shoot prone or something with a pistol.

Now if you'll all excuse me, I have to shop accessories for the new Alchemy I have coming
 
#24 ·
controversial take- buy the gun, train on your own and after spending the $, you still have the gun.

there's enough material, free online, to get the average slob from 'i shoot 1x a month' to 'outperform'.

most 'gun folk' [obviously not the esteemed folk on here] are at the prior and as such, [in most cases and imo], taking a $$ class is a waste of time v. money.
 
#25 ·
Sounds like a good deal until you take a couple of courses and figure out quite quickly that the things you learn from a professional trainer are so much more than an internet feed can provide.

Check credentials and references first pays to do diligence.

Would a really good trainer show you all of his hard won secrets for free?

The old adage you get what you pay for never meant more than in this prime example.

T
 
#26 ·
One of the difference between classes and internet is testing under pressure, duration, and elements.

Classes are usually 6-7 hours long. Many are 2 or 3 days in a row. Could be 90 degrees or 30 degrees, sun, rain, wind, snow, etc.

I just finished a 2 day class, both days close to 90. Brain turns to mush towards the end of day two in that weather. Hard to duplicate that on the internet.
 
#27 ·
One of the difference between classes and internet is testing under pressure, duration, and elements.

Classes are usually 6-7 hours long. Many are 2 or 3 days in a row. Could be 90 degrees or 30 degrees, sun, rain, wind, snow, etc.

I just finished a 2 day class, both days close to 90. Brain turns to mush towards the end of day two in that weather. Hard to duplicate that on the internet.
I get that..

My range is unheated, no AC and always empty.. padlock to enter, lock up when done.

So unlike the crowded noisy big city ranges, where you get one lane and are charged by the minute etc.. I can stay all day, sleep over on a cot, wear whatever costume I want, (usually batman or the punisher), shoulder roll over tables, kick over chairs, play my theme music, sing along and tough talk targets with any level of epithet.. "Are you talking to me?!"

I get it tho, a structured class would be of value but if it's the difference between an STI Tactical 4.0 and a multiday class in Texas or Arizona, I'm still going gun. :D
 
#32 ·
I’m going to take a different approach. I’m going to focus on the word benefit and it’s going to take me in a few directions. The first is a practical benefit.

There was a long time that I spent a lot of money on guns knowing full well that I’d be better off focusing on one platform. I also did a lot of training and was on a range shooting four to six days a week. I think training is very important, and is neglected by many in both an individual and professional armed context.

With that said, there is a price of admission to be competitive in certain circumstances. I know most of our focus is on the defensive use of the firearm, usually in the context of personal CCW or home defense. In my former world of law enforcement, I knew there was a point where, had someone the right mindset, skill set, tools, and terrain, I’d be doomed. I was introduced to night vision equipment by a good friend and former Army LRSD guy. With about 20 minutes of instruction I was making around 1.2 second hits on steel at 25 yards in almost complete darkness with an optic equipped handgun. When I started using IR lasers it was mind boggling how easy it was to hit targets while remaining in complete darkness.

Most cops don’t have access to this. Most regular people won’t spend the money. Put one guy in a good spot with a PVS-14 and an AR with an IR laser and they could do horrible things for a good amount of time most likely. So do we pay the price? The game is about tools, and without the tools you aren’t really doing anything but hoping not to be a part of the game. With the tools, you’re not going to be as effective without training… understanding passive vs. active aiming, tactics with and against night vision, etc… So do we play the odds and say its super unlikely so we’ll focus on other more likely scenarios, or do we pay the price?

Night vision is one example of tools being important, but that technology is already a few decades old in a practical sense. It’s like the advertisements that encourage us to “collect them all.”. Can we?

My second thought is at what point is a benefit a curse? At what point are we neglecting our finances, our relationships, and our living of life to chase the ability to prevail in any situation? If there’s a lesson to some of the heroic albeit tragic military incidents over the past 35 years it’s that the best laid plans and the best, most trained and equipped men can still fail and die because… stuff just happens. A very well known and loved Sgt on my department confronted a burglar from what I was told was a pretty significant distance… 15 to 25 yards. The suspect had a small handgun and fired under his arm behind him, which struck the Sgt and incapacitated him, allowing the suspect to finish him off. Tactically there could have been some different decisions, but luck replaced skillset that day.

How trained do we “have” to be? What is likely? What are we paid, sworn, obligated, morally dedicated… to do? Are we trained for that? Are we putting so much into training for a very unlikely “maybe” that we’re sacrificing us and our loved ones now? Where is that line?

I worked with people who… and myself had a certain attitude that if you weren’t as dedicated as me you were lazy and a POS. I now realize they live and I lived in a very unhealthy bubble.

My last digression, or thought… is that I like guns… I do.

Completely independent of my ability to protect my family, fight terrorists, wage war, stop crime, and save the day… I just like guns. 1911s aren’t the best guns. They just aren’t today. But they work and they’re beautiful and there’s no gun I love more. If I want to buy another 1911 over taking a training class, then I will. Because I like guns. If someone wants to tell me I suck… maybe I do. I’ll suck happy with my new happy toy.

Now… If they want to fight… I’m better with an optic-equipped handgun with my PVS-14s and my AR with IR laser… but don’t count me out with an iron-sighted single stack steel and wood pistol.

To finish this off… If you haven‘t taken a training class, it can be amazingly fun. You get to hang out with like minded people, learn things, focus on something other than obligations, and build memories that will last a long time. I’ve met some of my favorite people in training classes.
 
#33 ·
You could buy and carry a 6 port compensated open gun with a 1 lb trigger. Sure you’d kick ass while practicing and showing off. There’s a reason police carry a Glock with a 5.5lb trigger. First you won’t shoot yourself when you get an Adrenalin dump as easily. You won’t shoot when you’re not ready. Legally it’s best not to bring a target gun to a gun fight. Buy a Glock and learn how to shoot.
 
#34 ·
Personally when I hear/see the word 'training' I take it with a serious 'grain of salt'.

I have seen some so called 'training' that is so ridicules, unsafe and pointless it shouldn't even be legal.

PRACTICAL training, I.E. with proper safety, handling & shooting and understanding of the LAWS as the primary goals I believe is the best approach - with PRACTICE as an important and continual part of the process.

Unfortunately FAR TOO MANY people (especially 'new' gun owners') regard owning guns for no other reason than 'self defense' and unfortunately this is a very distorted and 'unrealistic' approach.