Makes sense...I would be pissed.I had a custom Triarc ordered, supposed to ship in 60 days....then 90....then 120....then they weren't sure. At 150 days, I canceled the order. I've ordered more than one gun over the years with delayed delivery and was okay with it - but when you repeatedly miss delivery dates and don't update until *I* contact *you* - we're done.
Interesting statement (or maybe not).TriArc all day.
STI is just a marketing firm that makes guns at this point.
I know all about marketing. After all, I am responsible for grabbing up 5%+ of STI's market share.Interesting statement (or maybe not).
Care to expound on your opinion? Also what business succeeds without marketing its products? I’ll say that up until the past 3-4 years STI has sucked at marketing and had more of a cult following. I think that their pistols have been undervalued for their quality from lack of marketing. If you want to sell your product you have to make potential customers know about it, this is done with marketing. Would Wilson Combat be the company it is today without marketing, would any company?
Derek,I know all about marketing. After all, I am responsible for grabbing up 5%+ of STI's market share.
They haven't made a great gun in awhile. I have personally witnessed their guns break countless times. From slides cracking, to comps getting blown off the gun and injuring spectators.
Westwind made the decision to not offer open guns anymore, because they don't want people REALLY running their guns. That is why their shills are trying to convince people to shoot open division with slide mounted optics. "Find your win" is their current marketing hook... a shame they are setting up their customers for failure right out of the gate.
I also know what companies Westwind tried to purchase before they grabbed STI. They aren't trying to make great guns... they are trying to make money off of a name. A name that is starting to be less and less relevant, so they dump a TON of money into marketing. People that don't know any better buy into it.
I imagine if they put half as much into R&D, they could really do some cool stuff.
You're right. 5% doesn't mean much. However, when you consider that GI took 5, we'll say NH took another 5%, another 5% for Infinity, TriArc another 5%, PT another 5%, Cheely another 5%, Freedom another 5%, L10 another 5%... that market share starts getting slim real quick. This proliferation of 2011 builders is why you will void your warranty on an STI if you remove the grip.Derek,
When you say you are responsible for grabbing up 5% of STI’s market share I assume you mean your time with Guncrafter. I’m a fan of Guncrafter but taking 5% from a company that basically had 0 competition in a market segment isn’t that huge is a deal. I might be wrong but up until the last couple years no one other than very small custom builders and SVI we’re making 2011’s. I assume this is because STI still held patents on the frame (that is an assumption). Then GI and Nighthawk got into the game.
So is everyone. Engineering magazines is the most expensive part of a gun. Hence Wilson's building the EDCX9 around a Walther mag. MBX makes far superior 2011 mags, but the price of them would increase the overall price.Now once again I’m a GI fan but aren’t they using STI mags in their guns and building them off a copy of the STI frame? Not a lot of innovation there. I’ll give you GI and Nighthawk are a slight step up in quality from STI but your prices reflect that too. You were able to gain that 5% because GI has been marketed well and has die hard fans. I’m glad GI and Nighthawk jumped into the game. It’s shed a lot of light on the 2011 platform which was incorrectly judged to be a competition only platform.
GI will make an open gun all day long. Want it tuned to your ammo of choice? No problem.You complain that STI isn’t currently making open guns. Unless I missed a model I don’t think Guncrafter is chasing that market either. It’s a very small market where most of the competitors have moved to full on customs vs off the shelf guns.
They actually don't push them to the limits. Most are trying to barely make major power factor.You mention failures. By your verbiage it sound like these are or are primarily on competition guns.... Most likely open guns. Those guys mess with, tweak, and push those guns to their absolute limit. You don’t think they’ll be failures? And the failures that happened I’m sure STI fixed under warranty.
Maybe they do now, and that is good... that was definitely not the case in the past.Any manufacturer can and will have failures on any style gun. I’m sure that you dealt with that at GI. It’s not the failures but how the company fixes them that makes them stand out. STI has a great reputation in that arena.
When a projectile strikes a comp that is literally falling off of the barrel because there are not enough threads to secure it, the projectile tends to do some pretty strange stuff. The same reason people get shrapped on a regular basis when shooting steel targets. That happening had zero to do with the ammo, and everything to do with QC. The shooter was simply using the gun for the intended (and marketed) purpose.You mention spectators getting injured by exploding comps, seems hard to do if the gun is pointed in a safe direction. We also get back into the competition guys pushing these guns and the ammo they run to the extreme limit.
Josh Froelich, specifically. He is their sponsored shooter.Who said STI was encouraging people to shoot open with a slide mounted optic? This is even more so peculiar because just a few sentences before you said they weren’t making open guns. The only model I think you could be talking about would be the DVC-P or the now rebranded Staccato-XC. That gun is a carry gun with a comp on it, a carry comp. Same as Wilson and recently Nighthawk make.
You keep mentioning the competition sector being small. Like I said up there, it is growing more and more. As we see the millennial demographic take over, it will grow exponentially. In 5 years, it will be twice the size it is today.And “Find your win”? A marketing slogan paying tribute to their competition roots. A market segment that they are not focusing on any more and smartly I might add as the LEO and civilian carry market is a much larger market to work in as I’m sure you know from your time at GI.
I put them above STI because you will get a better product. STI is about making money... the more hours you put into a gun, the less money you make. They are searching for the way to put the least amount of hours into a gun, so they can make the most money. Of course, everyone wants to make money. The smaller guys actually want to make awesome guns and money. The company that owns STI could care less about guns. They invest in companies that will make them money.You put TriArc over STI. I can’t argue that because I’ve never held one. Of course it sounds like very few people had. It also looks like they were glock guys that got into the 2011 market and can’t keep up with demand. That’s not surprising though. I’ve yet to work with a small outfit or gunsmith that was on time with their orders, not enough people on staff and not enough hours in the day.
I never have an issue with explaining something I say. What is said on the internet is there forever. I don't just type random things I think into a forum. These are my opinions based on mine and others direct experiences over the course of more than a decade.Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I understand you don’t like STI but I feel your post was a but misleading and defamatory. I’m not trying to argue with you I just feel like people reading this thread need the whole story.