Trigger creep.....how much does your gun have?

Discussion in '1911 Gunsmithing' started by wrx04, Nov 1, 2011.

  1. wrx04

    wrx04 Member

    98
    Aug 24, 2011
    I recently swapped out all my triggers to the short variety, and after playing around with them, ive noticed the pull has some creep. The STI has the most, followed by the UTC and CQB respectively. The Trojan and UTC have a small amount of creep that you really need to look for, but once i found it, its noticeable. The CQB has virtually none at all. Can you get more creep by installing a new trigger, or has it always been there?

    I dont know if its because im aware of it, but if i concentrate on my trigger control, i can detect it and it kinda bugs me. Does this vary from gun to gun on an individual basis (even the same gun from the same builder)? How much creep can you feel in your guns?

    All three of my guns have a nice 3.5-4lb pull, i just prefer the crisp break of the cqb.
     
  2. Bender

    Bender Supporting Addict Supporting Addict

    Aug 15, 2011
    My Miller Custom Springfield has none.
    My Rogers Precision Commander has none.
    My 1989 Colt Delta Elite has a good bit.
    My Springfield LW Compact's triger was garbage!
     

  3. Kokopelli

    Kokopelli Schütze

    Aug 17, 2011
    None that I can tell.. They've all been fixed.. Ron
     
  4. sjd78

    sjd78 Supporting Addict Supporting Addict

    191
    Sep 29, 2011
    My Browns have zero creep whatsoever.
     
  5. polizei1

    polizei1 It WAS Quack

    Aug 18, 2011
    What exactly is creep? pre-travel is the movement from the trigger between normal rest and the point that the trigger breaks, right? So is creep where the trigger just pulls, and pulls, and then breaks?

    If so, my EMP has a little bit of pre-travel, but no creep. It literally does break like glass! Of course mine was fit professionally.
     
  6. Cigarhead

    Cigarhead Active Member

    328
    Sep 21, 2011
    I like not knowing
     
  7. ontarget1911

    ontarget1911 Member

    37
    Sep 26, 2011
    ljnhlkjh
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2011
  8. Mechanized

    Mechanized He's a large "member" Supporting Addict

    Sep 24, 2011
    None. My springer came with all the creep that springfield offered when I purchased it though. LOL
     
  9. Kokopelli

    Kokopelli Schütze

    Aug 17, 2011
    hahahahaha.. Some of them sure do.. Cheers.. Ron
     
  10. IraG2362

    IraG2362 Supporting Addict Supporting Addict

    807
    Sep 3, 2011
    My SA GI has almost no creep since I did the trigger, My SA GI LW Champ has some creep but I still have to do more work on it.
     
  11. wrx04

    wrx04 Member

    98
    Aug 24, 2011
    Heres a question.....what would make the creep be intermittent? I swear it comes and goes on the Baer. Pull the trigger 5 times with a clean/crisp break, and then the next two will have just a little movement before it breaks. Is this possible? Why does it happen?
     
  12. 50GI-Jess

    50GI-Jess Member

    497
    Aug 24, 2011
    Trigger creep can be caused by many factors. Some folks actually prefere minor creep, but it's usually non competitive shooters. In generel creep is most likely caused by these factors.
    1. Hammer hooks not true and square
    2. Hammer hooks too long, f.ie. 18/1000 +
    3. Primary sear angle/ hammer hooks contact surface not smooth.
    4. Sear too captive on the hammer hooks.
    5. Sear dragging on the frame or sear pin.
    6. Wrong setting on springs.

    These are just the usual suspects, but there can be many other causes. But no need to get too scientific about.
     
  13. EvolutionArmory

    EvolutionArmory Well-Known Member

    Sep 9, 2011
    Jess, I have a couple questions for you. Do you prefer your hammer hooks to be at .020 or .018.

    Also, I usually set my sear springs up so that I have just enough sear spring tension on the left leaf to keep the sear pressed up against the hammer and tend to add most of my tension on the middle leaf. This gives me real positive reset. Usually my middle leaf is forward of the left leaf.

    When you set up your sear springs, how do they usually look? Do you set yours up so the left leaf is in front of the middle or do you set yours up like I do with more tension on the middle leaf?
     
  14. Earlsbud

    Earlsbud Supporting Addict Supporting Addict

    460
    Aug 28, 2011
    "I recently swapped out all my triggers"

    Were these all "drop in" swaps?
     
  15. Cigarhead

    Cigarhead Active Member

    328
    Sep 21, 2011
    Yeah, that's what I said >) You don't feel a spot, you feel your trigger. You pull it and it breaks. zero creep. up and down movement (not bad) is not as big of a deal as side movement. I've honestly never purchased anything done in production that didn't have sloppy lose triggers. Springers etc. And to watch how quickly someone good can fix it, I just don't understand why they don't at least try a little l>)
     
  16. wrx04

    wrx04 Member

    98
    Aug 24, 2011
    They were not "drop in"...i dont think. I didnt do it myself. I took them to a local gunsmith, and that is why i originally asked the question.

    I had two separate local 'smiths fit and install the trigger and 10-8 rear sight. One guy did the STI and CQB, while another guy did the Baer.

    When i got home, the STI's trigger was pretty loose and flopping around.....i ended up detail stripping it myself and adjusting the tabs similar to the factory trigger (the guy didnt adjust the tabs at all!). This fixed the problem, but did not inspire much confidence in the "smith". The CQB trigger (installed by the same guy) has no movement and the trigger breaks like glass at 3.5lbs.........after seeing the STI trigger, he might have got lucky with the wilson being a "drop in" (???)

    The Baer was done by a different smith at my local range. This one baffles me a little......sometimes it has a slight amount of creep, and other times it breaks clean as can be. I dont understand how it can vary from time to time? Not sure what to make of it.....maybe im being too picky, but i thought even an average gunsmith would fit and install a trigger perfect every time. The guy who did the Baer did say the hooks were not even and he had to adjust/polish it slightly......that statement kinda scared me, lol.

    That being said, i have several hundred through each gun after the new triggers were installed and they seem good to go. No failures, and they shot very well. The creep is noticeable sometimes if you are REALLY looking for it. I know there is a ton of knowledge on this forum, so i thought id ask for some comments/advice. The more i learn about the 1911, the more i feel only a "well known" big name smith should be working on my guns. It seems there is A LOT to consider....even with seemingly simple modifications.
     
  17. 50GI-Jess

    50GI-Jess Member

    497
    Aug 24, 2011
    Granitestategunworks
    Yes, I usually go with .018 on the hamme hooks. Sometimes closer to .20 and then regulate it on the primary sear angle. I bend the sear spring the way you do.
    Trigger pull drop in kits is like jack in the box. Different manufactures don't always make frames to correct blueprint specs. So you never know what you're going to get. Yes, the trigger group parts are usually high quality, but still needs fitting.
    It's all about money.
     
  18. AlchemyCustomWeaponry

    AlchemyCustomWeaponry Crabby Old Gunsmith

    Nov 4, 2011
    I think too many people call pre travel creep, and they really don't even know what creep is. Very difficult to take out all the pre travel in some cases.
     
  19. too_pure

    too_pure Employed

    550
    Nov 9, 2011
    I had the trigger on my Loaded worked over and it has an amount of pre-travel that is just right for me, not much, and clean break at 4 lbs. No creep that I can discern.
     
  20. Sir Guy

    Sir Guy Sharpening Ockham's Razor Supporting Addict

    Aug 20, 2011
    I do like some pre-travel. I appreciate a sort of mini two-stage trigger press with 1911s.

    I'm weird with triggers, though. I either like a good 1911 pull or a good smooth double-action pull, or a good approximation of it. For example, the SIG P250's trigger pull is something I like (although the reset is pretty long).

    Consistency is important to me. My work rifle (a Bravo Company M4) has a somewhat heavy trigger, but it's clean and consistent.

    Andy
     

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