[Augee]

Not sure if it’s already been mentioned, my apologies if I’m retreading, but per the SDS rep on Instagram, the MAC DS guns are supposed to have “the Agency Cut” though he seemed confused when I tried to ask him to confirm that it was the same “Agency Cut” as the Springfield AOS used on the Prodigy and AOS single stack guns, however the photographs all seem to confirm that it is the same cut as the Prodigy / AOS guns, and I am not aware of another “Agency Cut” for 1911 format guns (nor would that really make a lot of sense). Tisas guns

Perhaps not a hugely impactful piece of information, but it’s interesting to me from an industry perspective with two lower cost (and likely higher production number) manufacturers in the “entry level” scale of things potentially standardizing on the same optics platform footprint and what that means in terms of longevity and long-term sustainment / industry inertia when it comes to standardized optic plate footprints in the 1911/2011 market, especially if Staccato moves away from the DPO format.

For better or for worse, Gen. Z also seems to be much more enthusiastic about the Turkish guns than many older folks, perhaps because it’s been more of a point of entry for them into the 1911 platform, which is also seeming to come later on into their overall “firearms enthusiasm” compared to many of us who “came up” amongst old timers who were introduced to the 1911 fairly young and early on.

~Augee

 

[Eagle84]

I saw that post as well a thought it looked just like the AOS profile too. From what I understand tisas makes the base frame and slide forgings for Springfield’s SA-35 and then Springfield finishes them enough to be considered made in America. So it makes sense that they might follow their lead in their 1911 lines.

 

[OHMat1911]

Not sure if it’s already been mentioned, my apologies if I’m retreading, but per the SDS rep on Instagram, the MAC DS guns are supposed to have “the Agency Cut” though he seemed confused when I tried to ask him to confirm that it was the same “Agency Cut” as the Springfield AOS used on the Prodigy and AOS single stack guns, however the photographs all seem to confirm that it is the same cut as the Prodigy / AOS guns, and I am not aware of another “Agency Cut” for 1911 format guns (nor would that really make a lot of sense). Tisas guns

Perhaps not a hugely impactful piece of information, but it’s interesting to me from an industry perspective with two lower cost (and likely higher production number) manufacturers in the “entry level” scale of things potentially standardizing on the same optics platform footprint and what that means in terms of longevity and long-term sustainment / industry inertia when it comes to standardized optic plate footprints in the 1911/2011 market, especially if Staccato moves away from the DPO format.

For better or for worse, Gen. Z also seems to be much more enthusiastic about the Turkish guns than many older folks, perhaps because it’s been more of a point of entry for them into the 1911 platform, which is also seeming to come later on into their overall “firearms enthusiasm” compared to many of us who “came up” amongst old timers who were introduced to the 1911 fairly young and early on.

~Augee

I think the younger guys like myself are accepting of the TISAS guns more from a couple angles

1. We can afford an entry level Colt but the oldtimers and those that tinker remind us that new Colts are bad or at least not as good and might as well be project guns

2. Springfields are nice but still hit or miss. Newbies hear all about MIM and why they have to replace all the internals (and its still not a Colt)

3. Now enter Tisas 1911s. May need some tweaks but theyre cheap and run pretty well for the price. If you damage it learning, not a big deal

4. Prodigy vs Tisas DS is basically the same thing. The MAC 9DS and Prodigy are direct competitors (IMO) and ths MAC seems to be bettee value out of the box. Now with them releasing a 5" and then Comp'd versions they are going to be even more popular


All this to say I still want a decent Colt and maybe a nicer 2011 but these imports and even Springfields are a good gateway drug

Thats how I ended up here with the 1911Addicts

 

[Nutsey Fagen]

I think the younger guys like myself are accepting of the TISAS guns more from a couple angles

1. We can afford an entry level Colt but the oldtimers and those that tinker remind us that new Colts are bad or at least not as good and might as well be project guns

2. Springfields are nice but still hit or miss. Newbies hear all about MIM and why they have to replace all the internals (and its still not a Colt)

3. Now enter Tisas 1911s. May need some tweaks but theyre cheap and run pretty well for the price. If you damage it learning, not a big deal

4. Prodigy vs Tisas DS is basically the same thing. The MAC 9DS and Prodigy are direct competitors (IMO) and ths MAC seems to be bettee value out of the box. Now with them releasing a 5" and then Comp'd versions they are going to be even more popular


All this to say I still want a decent Colt and maybe a nicer 2011 but these imports and even Springfields are a good gateway drug

Thats how I ended up here with the 1911Addicts

I agree with this. I think that Turkish stuff today is really under rated for its price point and can't fault anyone who would go down that route. 5 years ago, I'm not sure this was the case.

In regard to Tissa vs the prodigy, the only comment that I would make is that going springfield, you are support American Manufacturing and for me, I'm will to pay that premium, but concede the end product is pretty much the same and for those on a tight budget, it's all good.

I will say that I do have a mac Mp5 and its great, and looks as good as any of the German guns that we had in the armory.

My next turkish delight will probably be the wood stock 1014 clone or the 10mm 1911.

 

[Augee]

I think the younger guys like myself are accepting of the TISAS guns more from a couple angles

1. We can afford an entry level Colt but the oldtimers and those that tinker remind us that new Colts are bad or at least not as good and might as well be project guns

2. Springfields are nice but still hit or miss. Newbies hear all about MIM and why they have to replace all the internals (and its still not a Colt)

3. Now enter Tisas 1911s. May need some tweaks but theyre cheap and run pretty well for the price. If you damage it learning, not a big deal

4. Prodigy vs Tisas DS is basically the same thing. The MAC 9DS and Prodigy are direct competitors (IMO) and ths MAC seems to be bettee value out of the box. Now with them releasing a 5" and then Comp'd versions they are going to be even more popular


All this to say I still want a decent Colt and maybe a nicer 2011 but these imports and even Springfields are a good gateway drug

Thats how I ended up here with the 1911Addicts

I have a MAC JSOC that I've been a huge fan of and I think the Turkish guns are a great value, which is why I'm talking to the SDS rep via IG DM, hahaha, so I'm not knocking the Turkish guns at all, but I know that they can be a... polarizing topic to some, which is why I said "for better or worse," hahaha.

Actually, I think it's a great thing that guys are getting into the 1911/2011 game and not only because of the influence of crotchety old white hairs like many older enthusiasts did.

I think I posted elsewhere at one point about "points of entry" to 1911/2011 enthusiasm, and the fact that to guys my age (not that I'm an old fart at 40, hahaha) and older, we were usually introduced to the 1911 fairly early, by a relative or mentor or whomever that had one, and for many guys of my generation, a 1911 might've been one of the first handguns they ever shot, and with that likely comes some nostalgic value of "Colt .45s," or other "American Classics" that simply makes those guns feel more "right," and even the "re-branding" of the STI 2011 to Staccato has made it so that I've have met guys that don't even really realize the relationship of their Staccato to the "old" GI M1911A1 and don't associate the two together, at least not until it's explicitly pointed out to them.

On the other hand, a lot of younger shooters who were maybe introduced to guns by guys around my age probably "came up" on something like a Glock--even I spent the last 12-ish years shooting Glocks almost exclusively, a streak I didn't break again until early this year when I bought a MAC JSOC to dive back in with.

In which case, in general, younger guys are more used to Euro and otherwise overseas derived guns, they often do not have the same sort of emotional nostalgia tied to the design, and being honest, likely have a far different sense of price point expectations since a $500-$600 Glock usually runs and runs right out of the box.

I still know guys that think it's wild that a pistol might cost more than a high end AR, and would classify even a Prodigy as an "expensive pistol."

All of this and some other factors I think ultimately makes younger shooters more receptive to the Tisas/MAC guns, with less psychological baggage associated with "what's truly a 1911" (how many threads about "is it really a 1911 if ___" are there?), and again, I don't think that's a bad thing.

~Augee

 

[OHMat1911]

I agree with this. I think that Turkish stuff today is really under rated for its price point and can't fault anyone who would go down that route. 5 years ago, I'm not sure this was the case.

In regard to Tissa vs the prodigy, the only comment that I would make is that going springfield, you are support American Manufacturing and for me, I'm will to pay that premium, but concede the end product is pretty much the same and for those on a tight budget, it's all good.

I will say that I do have a mac Mp5 and its great, and looks as good as any of the German guns that we had in the armory.

My next turkish delight will probably be the wood stock 1014 clone or the 10mm 1911.

I'm not 100% as well versed on the Prodigy but the improvement in the internals and the finish is definitely a plus on the MAC as opposed to the cheaper MIM and Cerakote of the Prodigy

I was actually thinking about trying a new Prodigy with the comp port or getting into a Staccato of some kind in the next couple months. But with the announcements on the new MAC products that might change.

I like how the short guns handle but a 5" with the chunk port/comp might be a sweet shooter. Not sure if the 4.25 version with that cut would be better or worse for me. The 5" 1911/2011 Ive had the oppurtunity to shoot all feel sluggish but Im mostly used to G19/19x or P320 Carry size slides

 

[Nutsey Fagen]

I have a MAC JSOC that I've been a huge fan of and I think the Turkish guns are a great value, which is why I'm talking to the SDS rep via IG DM, hahaha, so I'm not knocking the Turkish guns at all, but I know that they can be a... polarizing topic to some, which is why I said "for better or worse," hahaha.

Actually, I think it's a great thing that guys are getting into the 1911/2011 game and not only because of the influence of crotchety old white hairs like many older enthusiasts did.

I think I posted elsewhere at one point about "points of entry" to 1911/2011 enthusiasm, and the fact that to guys my age (not that I'm an old fart at 40, hahaha) and older, we were usually introduced to the 1911 fairly early, by a relative or mentor or whomever that had one, and for many guys of my generation, a 1911 might've been one of the first handguns they ever shot, and with that likely comes some nostalgic value of "Colt .45s," or other "American Classics" that simply makes those guns feel more "right," and even the "re-branding" of the STI 2011 to Staccato has made it so that I've have met guys that don't even really realize the relationship of their Staccato to the "old" GI M1911A1 and don't associate the two together, at least not until it's explicitly pointed out to them.

On the other hand, a lot of younger shooters who were maybe introduced to guns by guys around my age probably "came up" on something like a Glock--even I spent the last 12-ish years shooting Glocks almost exclusively, a streak I didn't break again until early this year when I bought a MAC JSOC to dive back in with.

In which case, in general, younger guys are more used to Euro and otherwise overseas derived guns, they often do not have the same sort of emotional nostalgia tied to the design, and being honest, likely have a far different sense of price point expectations since a $500-$600 Glock usually runs and runs right out of the box.

I still know guys that think it's wild that a pistol might cost more than a high end AR, and would classify even a Prodigy as an "expensive pistol."

All of this and some other factors I think ultimately makes younger shooters more receptive to the Tisas/MAC guns, with less psychological baggage associated with "what's truly a 1911" (how many threads about "is it really a 1911 if ___" are there?), and again, I don't think that's a bad thing.

~Augee

I agree.

The reality is that concept of dropping 2500 dollars of a base staccato is full blown crazy town to people that came up shooting 400 dollar glocks. I like nice stuff as much as anybody else but everything has a point of diminishing returns.

Modern manufacturing, the USD/Turkish Lyra exchange rate and cost of labor all make Turkish stuff an incredible value proposition.

I rolled the dice on a used 5 inch prodigy for a grand and it was awesome, but have to say, those PSA daily deals for 500 to 600...

Damn tempting

 

[Madyaks]

I think anything that gets people into the hobby is cool. I don’t care if it’s a 700 dollar Turkish 2011 or a 1911 Taurus , just get out there and shoot.

 

[Tokay444]

It’s not so much the price, nor entirely the quality, although the quality does seem to match the price. It’s the fact that they’re Turkish. Screw that.

 

[2o2LL]

View attachment 1697380

damn that actually looks really good! grip looks alot better than the gen1 as well

 

[Tokarev]

@Augee

My MAC does not use the same optic plate as the one used by Springfield Armory that was designed by Agency.

If I'm reading your posts correctly, SDS is going to move away from the current MAC plate and going with the same one Springfield is using? I actually like the MAC plate. It seems really solid. But it is only available for the RMR and the only other plate options for the MAC are via Eleven 71.

 

[Augee]

@Augee

My MAC does not use the same optic plate as the one used by Springfield Armory that was designed by Agency.

If I'm reading your posts correctly, SDS is going to move away from the current MAC plate and going with the same one Springfield is using? I actually like the MAC plate. It seems really solid. But it is only available for the RMR and the only other plate options for the MAC are via Eleven 71.

Correct, at least per my understanding of what the SDS rep said:

Tisas DS guns will stick with the RMSc footprint that they are currently coming with, while MAC will switch to the Agency cut, which the rep either could not or would not confirm was the same cut that Springfield is using / developed for the Prodigy, but superficially based on photographs (without seeing the “inside” of the cut) and logic seems to be the case.

~Augee

 

[Tokarev]

It sure looks like an AOS plate.

 

[Tokarev]

Here's the current MAC plate.

 

[Augee]

To be honest, it was kind of a circular and inconclusive conversation, hahaha.

I saw that photograph on Instagram and noticed the same similarity and replied asking if it was the Springfield AOS plate.

The rep replying to their social media accounts said that it was not, but that it was the Agency plate.

To which I asked: “…the same Agency plate that Springfield uses for the Prodigy?”

Then he told me the Tisas guns were sticking with the RMSc footprint, but reiterated that the MAC guns would be changing to the Agency plate.

I tried to get clarification again that Springfield uses a plate design on the Prodigy that was developed by Agency and it looked similar, and the response I got was something along the lines of “I have a bunch of different guns out here, some are preproduction and have the old cut, some have the new cut.”

At which point I just thanked him for the response and moved on, SHOT is in just over a week at this point.

FWIW, none of the MAC variants except for maybe the 5” gun interest me that much, I was more interested in general because I have an AOS gun already and I’m broadly interested in tracking the proliferation and standardization of optics cuts (I’ve talked about it various times in different topics).

My guess is that the rep who was answering is either simply unfamiliar with the specifics of the Prodigy / AOS cut or perhaps there is some sort of restriction in the licensing agreement(s) between SA / Agency / MAC/SDS that prevents them from specifically saying it’s the same cut, as I don’t really see Agency redesigning a second 2011/1911-style cut for no good reason, my only hope is that the SA licensing agreement is not so restrictive as to prohibit them from allowing other manufacturers to use / adopt it, forcing them to slightly redesign it so as to be incompatible with one another, as I can only see it benefiting both MAC/SDS and Springfield Armory standardize on the footprint, which would effectively result in the AOS / Agency cut dominating the entry-level 2011 market and likely overwhelming other options through sheer volume and saturation, not wholly dissimilar from when Glock introduced the MOS and essentially wiped most other “alternate” modular red dot cuts off the map, minus direct mill variants like the MOS3/5 and apparently now their new Aimpoint collaboration.

~Augee

 

[Tokarev]

It would be nice to see the MAC switched to use the AOS plates because there are lots of options out there. Plates are available for just about everything and then from multiple makers. Off the top of my head we have Dawson, CHPWS, Springfield, Impact Machine and Eleven 71 making plates. There are probably a few others.

The only current MAC plate is the one that comes with the gun and it is an RMR plate. Eleven 71 makes plates for other optics but that's all I know of.

Even if SDS decides not to change they really need to support the plate system with other options. The MAC has been on the market now for a year or so and there's still nothing available as an OEM option.

 

[2o2LL]

SDS Imports will soon be selling a Turkish Tisas hicap 1911 under the MAC banner. The gun is featured in a current issue of Guns and Ammo and should also be reviewed by American Rifleman. I expect we'll see a bunch of youtu.be videos etc in the coming weeks and months.

Pics of the gun, in my opinion, look good. The gun seems to be well thought out in terms of general features. Whoever the product manager is for SDS is doing a good job laying out the feature sets for the MAC and Tisas 1911s. Plus the guns seem to have a decent reputation in terms of overall quality and reliability.

I'm excited to see the new double stack. If these end up selling for under a Grand they should be a solid value.

View attachment 1450454
View attachment 1450453

very interesting! looking forward to learn more about it in the near future

 

[Tokarev]

According to this the AOS cut is official.

The 4.25 Chunk port looks interesting. I might pick one up in a couple months once the price settles down. I only wish it didn't have the XC style slide cuts. I'd have preferred a little less gaugy look.

 

[Tokarev]

Lockedloaded.com has the MAC DS guns for $629 right now. That's a crazy price!

I assume they're blowing out the old models in preparation for the 2025 model updates.

 

[Nutsey Fagen]

Lockedloaded.com has the MAC DS guns for $629 right now. That's a crazy price!

I assume they're blowing out the old models in preparation for the 2025 model updates.

Crazy the Distributor as well as the manufacture are still making money at those price levels. Fairly good tolerances all things considering. Staccatto has been sticking it dry for years. I am glad to see "budget"/Production 2011's filling out the segment.

The markets saturated with $5000 "Custom" 2011's that neither offer a practical improvement in reliability nor a significant increase in performance.

It will be interesting to see where the psa 2011 is priced.