What are your thoughts on Sigs?

Discussion in 'General 1911 talk' started by Blue Ridge, Nov 23, 2011.

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  1. Blue Ridge

    Blue Ridge Well-Known Member

    Nov 3, 2011
    I'm about to buy a new DW black Vbob as my first 1911. My best shooting buddy recently bought a Sig, and he's pushing me to save some cash and get one too. I'm not going to. But can anyone here tell me how the two would compare, and how Sig rates overall in it's price range? I don't seem to hear a ton of talk about them online, but he's thrilled with his. It's his 2nd 1911, I believe. I suppose, it isn't very fair to compare a $750 pistol to an $1,800 one, but in case he tells me I'm just paying for the name or such... I'd like to be able to point out DW has no MIM parts, the melanite finish is superior or whatever the differences are that aren't aesthetic. Thanks in advance!
     
  2. 50GI-Jess

    50GI-Jess Member

    497
    Aug 24, 2011
    SIG's are fine quality pistols right out of the box. I carried one for 13 yrs. in the service. It only failed one time out of 50 K rounds fired. Either you like them or you don't.
    However, there's no finer gun than a dream custom 1911. Well, it also depends on what applications you're going to use it for. It's a hard choice if it's "one gun do all" type of deal, or if you need it for just one type of application. Take no chances...buy both.
     
    glokrok likes this.

  3. Pat-inCO

    Pat-inCO Olde Fart

    26
    Nov 7, 2011
    Since some of the Sig 1911s are in the same price range as Ruger's 1911, I would go Sig. I - had - a Ruger and do have a Sig. The Sig is a far better gun. The only "negative" thing I can think of is that mine rattles a bit (like a Colt), but on the positive, it is VERY accurate.
     
  4. Bugs

    Bugs Well-Known Member

    Oct 19, 2011
    I have an older SIG 1911 with no MIM parts. Very accurate pistol, nice finish & tightly fit. It likes to be run wet.
     
  5. EvolutionArmory

    EvolutionArmory Well-Known Member

    Sep 9, 2011
    You could buy the Sig, replace the 5 or 6 MIM parts on it and still have a few extra hundred dollars left in your pocket.

    DW's are nice but they are still a production gun with a cople hundred dollars worth of barstock and cast parts.

    You could get a Sig to the same "quality" level by replacing the slide stop, thumb and grip safety and still have money left over.

    DW's aren't the same value they were 3 years ago when a C Bob was 900. 3 years ago I would have told you to buy the DW without question.
     
  6. EvolutionArmory

    EvolutionArmory Well-Known Member

    Sep 9, 2011
    Sig 1911's have Ion Bond frames and slides. You could argue which is superior but you get a great finish on a 900 dollar Sig. Just saying.

    I don't have a dog in this fight either way but Sig is looking like the value DW used to be.
     
  7. Blue Ridge

    Blue Ridge Well-Known Member

    Nov 3, 2011
    What parts would you criticize on them? Dave Severns did a huge review of them with LB's, and Springfields. http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=321236 Probably the highest praise heaped on them was the quality of parts, even compared to Baers and Browns. If I'm misunderstanding something, PLEASE correct me now! I'm spending Thanksgiving so far with my finger hovering over the order button!
     
  8. Bugs

    Bugs Well-Known Member

    Oct 19, 2011
    Blue Ridge Reef: Ask yourself this? Does Severns have any bias here? Being a big DW dealer? I'll take the Les Baer over the Dan Wesson any day.
     
  9. 50GI-Jess

    50GI-Jess Member

    497
    Aug 24, 2011
    Is your new buy for selfdefense! If it is, there should be no sacrifice in quality of choice or trying to save too much money. Often times when I'm asked by folks on a budget what to buy, and especially if they are not truely into guns like we're here, I pretty much tell them to buy a 4" S&W revolver instead.
    9 out of 10 times that'll serve them much better...
     
  10. Gress

    Gress Don't need no education Supporting Addict

    Nov 21, 2011
    Why not a 3.5" one? :wink:
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2011
  11. Blue Ridge

    Blue Ridge Well-Known Member

    Nov 3, 2011
    I thought he was a Baer and Guncrafer dealer as well... Maybe I'm confusing him with another gunsmith over there. Either way, I'd suspect if he took liberties with the description of the parts, someone would have called him out on it. Of course, I don't know what to think about that forum. I've never seen a message board with so many members with high post counts and supporter status with "banned" under their user names. Something is/was going on over there.
    I am a daily concealed carrier. P99s are my current choice for primary, I have a compact for the summer and a full size for colder months. I also keep a Seecamp in my pocket any time I am wearing pants. My 1st 1911 isn't being bought for SD, but depending on my experience with it, I might well wind up carrying it -at least for formal occasions.
    I'd say I'm truly into guns, just like you. I've spent many hours and dollars working on .22 pistols for precision target shooting, my first AR build was over $2,000, etc. I've got the bug. I'm not a wealthy man, and don't have a very large collection (around 20 guns), but I am fascinated by the mechanics of firearms and always buy the nicest guns I can afford... or at least what I deem is the best value -much of that is subjective as you know. I knew choosing a 1911 wasn't going to be a clear cut decision, but I didn't anticipate such a scope of just production 1911s! I guess if I would have just came right out and said it in the first post, my real question would be "What is in this $1,800 1911 that isn't in the $800 one?" :lol:
     
  12. GeorgiaRedfish

    GeorgiaRedfish Well-Known Member

    Aug 19, 2011
    Nvm Irrelevant. They Sigs put me off due to the funky slide shape, making it not fit in a lot of holsters. So I 've heard.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2011
  13. 50GI-Jess

    50GI-Jess Member

    497
    Aug 24, 2011
    Blue ridge reef
    "What is in this $ 1,800 that isn't int he $ 800" That's an often asked question!
    The short story would be, that most $1.800 1911's isn't really true custom guns. They are..exept for very few, high end assembly line 1911's put together by qualified technicians using pretty good parts.
    $ 800 1911's is just about anything else.
     
  14. Blue Ridge

    Blue Ridge Well-Known Member

    Nov 3, 2011
    I'm aware the Valor is a production 1911. But it's only $400 or so away from a Guncrafter "no-name." Surely the parts it's built out of and/or the machines that make them are a cut above a 1911 costing $1000 less, though? Otherwise, everything production would be in the price range of a Rock Island, one would think...
     
  15. 50GI-Jess

    50GI-Jess Member

    497
    Aug 24, 2011
    Nothing wrong with the valor. Only heard good things about them....
    What I'm getting at, is really simple. It's what you can't see on a 1911 custom gun that will cost more money. Custom guns are made by trained pistolsmiths, who fit high quality parts into what becomes a high end custom 1911.
    Everything else is "production" and assembly line 1911's. One has to understand, that the word custom is one of the most misused words on the planet.
    Today everything is either custom or tactical. Say that you take a standard out of the box 70's series Colt. You install new sight, grips, controls, magwell and finish. Is that now a custom..sure it's been customized. But does that improve the important things like reliability and accuarcy....No, but it still qualify as custom now! It's all in the eye of the beholder.
     
  16. Mechanized

    Mechanized He's a large "member" Supporting Addict

    Sep 24, 2011
    Your already leaning towards a DW. You owe no one an explanation of your purchase other than your wife maybe. Sometimes why one costs more vs another isn't so black and white. Production costs are vastly different from the southern US to the northern US simply based off of wages. If you were to build an item exactly the same in different regions the price would be off 15 to 20 percent based simply on wages. Shipping of raw materials also plays a part as well as taxes, wages etc from state or region. Now also look at the way things are made cast vs forged, bar stock vs mim, Countries the items are produced in all play a part. Manufacturing processes also play a role in the price, if the companies change the cutting tools quicker before wear occurs, how your manufacturing plants are set up and the standards of your QC department, how often machines are tested for tolerances and quality and how often they are replaced all have effects on bottom lines. Then there is also greed. How this breaks down isn't shared by manufacturers. If you shoot it well and it runs this all that matters. If you feel more comfortable with a pistol made by one vs another matters then by all means buy your taste. Determining why a pistol costs more vs another may take alot of investigation that you simply cannot achieve from a forum. However you have heard from both sides and you have gotten everything from the forum that I think you possibly can.
     
  17. Blue Ridge

    Blue Ridge Well-Known Member

    Nov 3, 2011
    Mechanized, I see by your avatar you have fine taste in more things than just 1911s! Love that picture, I have to show of mine:
    [​IMG]
    I am buying the Vbob used from a poster here, barring anything out of the ordinary. I didn't mean to rub anyone wrong with my questions, I figured someone here might be familiar with the machining process/etc. Ya never know, it's the Internet!
     
  18. Mechanized

    Mechanized He's a large "member" Supporting Addict

    Sep 24, 2011
    Love my kids lol. Anyway it seemed like you were not getting the answer you were after. You would think the higher dollar makers would be touting this info don't you? The things that most people think make something better than another is crazy though. The layman's perceptions of quality are really off target with most things I believe. So maybe it isn't that great of a idea to announce how you build things. Gives other companies ad departments more mud to sling.
     
  19. 50GI-Jess

    50GI-Jess Member

    497
    Aug 24, 2011
    No! You're not rubbing anyone here the wrong way,but like "Mechanized" explained, There's a lot of variables that has influence on this topic. And the whole US 1911 industry cold face a tight rope situation in the not so distant future...

    Just imagine this for second. Say that certain countries in Asia, stepped the whole 1911 business up a notch. They would be able to outsell pretty much any 1911 custom maker here. Most gunowners in the US, don't spend any time on forums...or know what we know here. They just own guns because they can. Also most folks don't have much cash at hand anymore, and if they could buy foreign guns saving somewhere around 50 to 75% getting the same quality, our industry would face a serious problem.
    If there's no minimum wages, other tax systems and being chained to a sweath shop table, then one can manufacture any product at a very low price.
    I'm surprised that other popular service type pistols with expired patents, havn't already been copied on a serious level yet. It's just a matter of time.
     
  20. Bugs

    Bugs Well-Known Member

    Oct 19, 2011
    Blue Ridge you are not rubbing anyone the wrong way. Yes Dave also sells Baer's & others but his bread and butter are the DW's. Nothing wrong with a DW but they are a production gun with some upgraded parts which by the way the older SIG 1911's were. These days there are lots of choices out there in regards to 1911's and a lot of info thanks to the internet. It can make a buying decision much more complicated. When the DW's were cheaper they were a good deal; their price increase changed that for me. In that price range I would rather have the Baer. Right now my opinion is that Baer is the best bang for the buck out there right now and one fine pistol. And with CJ's pricing the deal is that much better. And you have a very cool dog; love that pic.
     

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