Wilson/Nighthawk vs Alchemy/Guncrafter

Discussion in 'General 1911 talk' started by Lennyo3034, Oct 23, 2020.

  1. Autonomous

    Autonomous Turgid member

    517
    Jan 14, 2019
    The Springfield Armory Custom Shop should be renamed because their guns are as is, no customization. Their quality and price is on par with the guns mentioned earlier.
    Worth a look.
     
  2. Roehl

    Roehl Well-Known Member

    745
    Jun 19, 2019
    I love my Guncrafter and Nighthawk. I want an Alchemy. But I think all of them are nice well built guns with great customer service. Just get why you like and don’t get hung up on the manufacturer because they are all top notch.


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    esmith1721 likes this.

  3. brucebulluck

    brucebulluck Member

    46
    Nov 23, 2018
    Yep


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  4. GIFS-1911

    GIFS-1911 Active Member

    98
    Apr 23, 2020
    Does that happen because some buyers decided to back out of the deal, and then the gun maker sends the gun to a gun shop for a fraction of the original price?
     
  5. Yoemen66

    Yoemen66 Well-Known Member

    534
    Aug 10, 2017
    All of them make production guns for retail, I would bet less than half the guns they make a year are actual customer orders.

    Like I said though production, semi-custom, and full custom are all hyperbole that basically serve no purpose other than giving this board fodder to argue about.

    You buy the right " production " gun it can be every bit as good or better than a "semi" or "custom" gun.

    And even full customs- Yost, Brian, Chen, etc have limits to what they will actually do to a gun. So again, don't get hung up on the terms.
     
    Lineman1982, Roehl and Brennerman like this.
  6. Kevin Rohrer

    Kevin Rohrer Well-Known Member Supporting Addict

    935
    Jul 6, 2014
    You are too concerned w/ definitions that may or may not be correct. Order the gun that meets you requirements and enjoy it.
     
    Dub, 1911_Bandit and Yoemen66 like this.
  7. cgff

    cgff Well-Known Member

    Aug 24, 2015
    OP,
    As others have said check em all out. Many different styles to choose from,
     
  8. Lennyo3034

    Lennyo3034 New Member

    20
    Aug 1, 2020
    Actually I didn’t even know there were definitions when I started this regretable thread. What I really wanted to know is what are the benefits of a larger shop vs smaller shop.
     
    Steve Zeitz, Lineman1982 and Yoemen66 like this.
  9. Yoemen66

    Yoemen66 Well-Known Member

    534
    Aug 10, 2017
    Nothing regrettable about the thread, its how people learn. Some people take how manufacturers are described way to seriously.

    Small shops can be have the advantages of better service or knowing the smith who built your gun compared to a larger shop.

    I have a nighthawk and a guncrafter and like both. No interest in a Wilson, but that is mostly personal preference and nothing more.

    They will all make you a fine gun, just pick the one that fits your preferences or appeals to you the most.

    I will correct one bit of misinformation in this thread. Wilson doesn't make all their own parts. They contract out parts to their specs just like everyone else.
     
  10. Cleveland B

    Cleveland B Well-Known Member

    147
    Feb 25, 2020
    I know exactly what you are thinking. I went through the whole mental gymnastics recently. I had a Sig Nigjtmare in 357 sig and then I started fondling the WC, Ed Brown, and Les Baer’s at the Local Gun Store. I kept thinking and thinking until the gun I wanted, an Ed Brown was sold. So i decided to just buy a WC CQB in 9mm. It turned out to be the best choice I could have made because I want carry it and shoot the snot out of it. Then all these “enablers” started talking about a little shop out of Ft Wayne called ACW. I found a Classic Carry on 45 ACP (had to have God’s caliber) at George’s on Gunslinger and wouldn’t you know it I have it with over 400 rounds through it. I took a class with the ACW and it was flawless. I now have another ACW in bound next month in the Prime Elite model in 9mm.

    So be careful. The knowledge here is priceless and these enablers have always made themselves available off line to answer questions. The quality 1911’s will go bang. But if you have the chance to hold one of the higher end 1911’s there is just something that words can’t describe.

    Dan Wesson’s are probably the best value.

    Ed Brown will not disappoint.

    ACW has tremendous amount of value for the price point.

    Wilson Combat and Nighthawk are no brainers.

    Guncrafters have a huge following here.

    For me Customer Service plays a huge role. ACW’s attention to detail and willingness to go above and beyond is the best.

    The guys at Wilson Combat are always willing to talk with me no matter what my questions are.

    Nighthawk also has a CS team that are awesome and responsive as well.

    If you buy one and only one than you will be one of the first here to do so. It’s all up to you and only you.

    Good luck.

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    1444BD37-565A-4972-8F25-3833178399FD.jpeg
     
  11. TheLegoJoker

    TheLegoJoker Member

    19
    Jul 14, 2020
    I have a Wilson EDC X9 and two Nighthawks, Costa Recon and Thunder Ranch, both in 45acp. Love them both, but I’m a little partial to the Nighthawks. I appreciate all the other makers have to offer though. I’d like to eventually add a Guncrafter, Alchemy, and others to my collection. Some fine guns out there, to be sure.
     
    Babboonbobo and 1911 crazed like this.
  12. AlchemyCustomWeaponry

    AlchemyCustomWeaponry Crabby Old Gunsmith

    Nov 4, 2011
    Since I come from a music background also, I have a slightly different take on what "boutique" means to me. I look at it from the perspective of building boutique tube guitar amplifiers. The procedure involves selecting all of the components based on knowing that those components are either the best or the most desirable components available, and then hand building those components in to a final product that is being made in very small volume. That's how we do it here. Unlike a lot of others, I will straight up tell you where the parts come from because I'm proud to have chosen parts that I know to be the best of the best. In the event that you sent me a base gun to gut and rebuild, these are the same parts either you yourself would choose or if you were looking for suggestions, I would recommend.
     
  13. 1911_Bandit

    1911_Bandit Batteries_included

    358
    Mar 5, 2020
    @AlchemyCustomWeaponry , thank you for that explanation. It is way different than what others here have said 'boutique' means, and it makes much more sense.
     
    Babboonbobo and 1911 crazed like this.
  14. Glock2740

    Glock2740 1911 addict Staff Member Moderator

    Aug 16, 2011
    Kimber just moved from NY to Alabammy, so now they can have salsa that’s not made in NYC?!, which means no more rope fees.
    And now that they’re in the south, their custom shop will start raiding Wilson, Nighthawk and Guncrafter of their smiffs, so look for the quality of these companies to go way down and Kimber’s quality to go way up.

    The build times will probably take longer because the southern food is much better, which will have the gun smiffs gaining weight, which will make them fatter and slower. But, the down home southern pride will be there so quality will be at a premium.

    Good luck with your new build and be sure to post up some pics. :thumbs: :D
     
    SVG likes this.
  15. Trashyshoots

    Trashyshoots Active Member

    134
    Apr 3, 2020
    Dont get me started on boutique fuzz pedals. :cigar:
     
  16. nikerret

    nikerret Well-Known Member

    Mar 2, 2019
    You two got bad history? I must have missed something.

    Bac’s post is very good, but it’s also very old. A lot has changed over the nine+ years, since he started that thread.
     
  17. Yoemen66

    Yoemen66 Well-Known Member

    534
    Aug 10, 2017
    If someone wants to refer to NH and WC as production guns it is hardly cause to attack them and insult them. It's their opinion out of honesty or ignorance who knows.

    Technically both companies do make production guns in addition to custom orders so it isn't Technically wrong and it still doesn't matter nor does it merit vulgarity. The next time I refer to one of my multiple 1911s in person as a production, semi, or custom gun will be the first.
     
    Pontilhaze and Au Jus in Bello like this.
  18. nikerret

    nikerret Well-Known Member

    Mar 2, 2019
    My 1911 journey started in late 2012. Prior to that, I had shot a few 1911's, but didn't know what brand, model, or anything about them. I was at a large gun store that had LE firearms. The owner was present and had a case of 1911 type firearms. In the case were two Dan Wesson's, a CCO and a Guardian. I wasn't really looking to buy a pistol, that day, but I was window shopping. Since I didn't know anything about 1911's, I quickly dismissed the DW's and looked at some $400-600 options. Meh. He talked me into handling the DW's and I really liked them.

    What I really liked about them was the fit and finish. In the hand, there was no play or rattle. It was unlike any firearm I had really looked at, before. No one I knew had anything that nice. The triggers really impressed me. Coming from a Sig P226 and Glocks, the DW trigger was a sweet dream. The owner of the store told me this might be my last chance to get a DW as there had been a bad fire and production was shut down. I rolled my eyes and left without buying. In the parking lot, I looked up values and what he offered was a deal, but not a crazy good one, I found BLEM models for slightly more than what he wanted for these two non-blems. I called a few guys I knew who were into 1911's. They had no idea about DW. They used Kimbers and Springfield Armory, and a Colt, here and there. No one I knew had a gun worth more than $1,000. These retailed for around $1,500.

    I went home and read about the fire. I also read the amazing reviews about DW 1911's. The more I read, the more I wanted one, but I couldn't' decide which one. I called the shop owner, a few days after looking at them. He and I worked out a deal and I showed up with cash. I bought them both at a good discount. Other than having to pay 10% sales tax.

    Six months later, I sold the CCO (stupid me, of course, this is the one they later chose to discontinue), for a $500-600 profit. I still have the Guardian, still unfired from the factory.

    Since I couldn't get myself to shoot the "super expensive" DW, I bought a Desert Eagle 1911G. I bought it partially based on Bac's guide and other forum recommendations, in spring of 2014. It was okay, but didn't check all of my boxes. It was a good learning tool and helped show what I liked, in a 1911. I sold it, later, without a worry.

    I had heard of the SACS Professional, years before, but really started reading up on them, in 2016/2017. The nearly $3,000 price tag to get one I wouldn't have to wait for was way outside of my financial capabilities. In the back of my mind, I always wanted one, though. Spring of 2019, I was finally in a financial position to make a big 1911 purchase. I joined this forum so I could buy my railed Pro, from the classifieds. As soon as I met the seller, in Cabela's parking lot, I knew I needed this in my life. It just exuded excellence.

    A few weeks later, I got an Ed Brown, from a member of this forum. It was built in 2001 and i wasn't able to see it, in person, before it was bought and shipped. That gun, too, has the "x" factor that I don't get out of every firearm. Though, this EB doesn't invoke the same level of awe the Professional does. Until that time, I didn't have any way to try before I buy. Everything I got was "blind".

    Since then, I have found a great forum sponsor, within driving distance. His shop has a ton of 1911's. I have gone in and been a giant pain in the ass, looking at different makes and models. His prices are good and it's a great place to do business with. When I am in a position to buy, again, I have a list.

    I have been able to handle Ed Brown's, Les Baer's, Guncrafter Industries', Nighthawk's, Wilson Combat's, Colt's, and a few others. For some reason, only a couple of the Wilson Combat's have given me any indication I should buy them. They look nice and there is nothing wrong with them, but there is just no "X". There have been a couple I wouldn't mind having, but they are further down the list. However, the Nighthawk Thunder Ranch Special is something I need, in my life. Close to it was the Nighthawk Colt Hawk. I'll have these two, next. From there, it just depends what strikes me. I've never handled an ACW, so I can't say if it has the "X" I get from other pieces.

    The classifieds, here, are fantastic. A great group of like-minded individuals. The deals range from good to great. Even some of the pictures I see check all my boxes. Others, don't do anything. The best part about this forum is buying and selling is encouraged. For the price of FFL fees (if applicable), you can own it and try it. If you don't like it, you can post it back up.
     
    1L26, Pontilhaze and Lineman1982 like this.
  19. Greenrunner

    Greenrunner Well-Known Member

    Dec 11, 2017
    I also try to avoid contentious debates on this forum, but I have to take issue with the claim that food is better in AL than in NYC. Have you ever had pizza in AL?
     
  20. Glock2740

    Glock2740 1911 addict Staff Member Moderator

    Aug 16, 2011
    Touché.
    But,...Have you ever had fried chicken, fried okra and mashed taters in NYC? ;)
     

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