WW2 Remington Rand with questionable marks on trigger guard

Discussion in 'Collector's Corner' started by 41ManGun, Feb 10, 2019.

  1. 41ManGun

    41ManGun New Member

    21
    Dec 12, 2018
    Hi all,
    I recently posted a thread about "Something fishy going on with this pistol". Well the guy I purchased it form came through and swapped it for this Remington Rand. I looked it over very carefully and noticed some markings on the underside of the trigger guard. Neither he or his gun show partner could explain these markings. So, of course, I come to you guys. And yes I did notice the faint H attached to the FJA and the slight difference of blueing on the upper portion of the frame. I'll let the photos do the talking from here on out.
    (Sorry, I have taken better photos) IMG_4541.jpg IMG_4569.jpeg IMG_4572.jpeg IMG_4570.jpeg IMG_4571.jpeg IMG_4582.jpeg IMG_4588.jpeg IMG_4589.jpeg IMG_4587.jpeg
     
    xerts1191 likes this.
  2. JMV375

    JMV375 Active Member

    279
    Apr 5, 2014
    That gun(or just the frame) is re-imported into the US by CAI, St. Albans, VT.
    Century Arms International
    Not an original WW II vet bring back.
     

  3. 41ManGun

    41ManGun New Member

    21
    Dec 12, 2018
    I deleted this question due to poor timing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  4. 41ManGun

    41ManGun New Member

    21
    Dec 12, 2018
    Two stupid questions/remarks I removed. I wrote them while I was mad. Not the right time to put down your thoughts.


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    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  5. 41ManGun

    41ManGun New Member

    21
    Dec 12, 2018
    I guess a better question would be whether or not the frame was made by Remington Rand and was purchased by Century Arms International. The serial number is correct for RR and all the markings look original.
    Could this be a legit firearm?
    Any info would be appreciated.


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  6. Hardway

    Hardway Well-Known Member

    129
    Nov 23, 2016
    Jmv is right that CAI is an import stamp. That frame was brought back into the country after 1968.

    Not sure what you’re asking. Legit as far as what? The serial number is RR made in 1943. Other proof marks look correct. It was not a vet bring back gun since it has the CAI import stamp. CAI is the import company in St. Albans,VT. I believe import marks started in 1968. It could of been a lend lease pistol.

    Is the seller a legit dealer? Any dealer,FFL, should know that is an import mark.
     
  7. 41ManGun

    41ManGun New Member

    21
    Dec 12, 2018
    Legit meaning it was manufactured as any other 1911A1 but somehow it was left behind. Left behind for use by friendly foreign countries and the purchased by CAI for import back into the US. I’m familiar with 1968 GCA. These markings only mean that it was returned to US soil sometime after 1968. Still an original 1911A1 only with import markings.
    Correct?


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  8. Cop_Out

    Cop_Out Pearl Pimp Supporting Addict

    Feb 3, 2017
    I'm not an expert on these guns, and defer to every one else.

    Having said that, I believe your gun was produced by Rem-Ran in 1943 and is an authentic WWII 1911. I think the previous poster meant the gun did not come home with a soldier, not that it wasn't a genuine WWII gun. The "H" that you refer to is just an over stamp of FJA, the initials of the inspector during that time period. The Century Arms importation stamps were applied to the gun when it was brought back into the US from a foreign country. A large number of WWII mil-guns were sold to foreign powers after the war, and eventually re-imported to the US years later. I cant recall where I read it, but I think a lot of 1911s went to Israel after the war.

    Best,
    C
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  9. CENTURIATOR

    CENTURIATOR Well-Known Member

    593
    Dec 20, 2018
    How much did you pay for it?
     
  10. 41ManGun

    41ManGun New Member

    21
    Dec 12, 2018
    $1900


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  11. WWB

    WWB Administrator Staff Member Admin Moderator Supporting Addict

    Apr 11, 2015
    Those are Import marks from Century arms International..
     
  12. Lakeman45

    Lakeman45 Active Member

    296
    May 15, 2017
    The acceptance stamp (FJA) was applied by hand and a die bounce was common, showing just a partial mark of the left side. The partial F looks like an H.

    I wouldn't be happy with the import marking which I am betting the seller knew what it was. Too high for import marked Remington Rand.
     
    william adams and Busa Dave like this.
  13. JMV375

    JMV375 Active Member

    279
    Apr 5, 2014
    Should have a Hi Standard barrel.
    HS stamped on 1 side of lug and P on other side of lug.
     
  14. CENTURIATOR

    CENTURIATOR Well-Known Member

    593
    Dec 20, 2018
    If the seller did not disclose this aspect of the 1911 and claimed it was a Veteran bring-back, well, he pulled a fast one over on you, or maybe, and this is the best construction, he didn't know either.

    CMP is selling these now for $1000 or so.
     
  15. Cop_Out

    Cop_Out Pearl Pimp Supporting Addict

    Feb 3, 2017
    I'm not an expert on these guns, and defer to everyone else!

    Depending on why you bought the gun I don't think you got hurt too badly at $1900, but less is always better ;) . Anyway, the market on military 1911s has been climbing steadily, and I suppose that's because they aren't making them anymore? I've seen them in very poor condition go for about 1K on GB over the last year. The import marks don't enhance the value, but if the gun is otherwise correct it's certainly better than a mix-master, IMHO anyway. The later Rem-Rans that I've had were equal to Colt in quality, and if you're planning on shooting it you don't want a collector grade gun anyway, right?

    I will offer you a suggestion that was given to me by an esteemed 1911 collector, and was singly the best advice I got when it comes to these mil-guns - Get a copy of Charles Clawson's book (he wrote one for mil-guns and one for commercial guns). It's a worthwhile investment if you're thinking about collecting military 1911s. It takes most of the mystery out of them, is easy to digest, and may save you from an expensive mistake.

    Best,
    C
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  16. Lakeman45

    Lakeman45 Active Member

    296
    May 15, 2017
    I don't believe the Clawson book covers import marked pistols. Personally, I have not seen the price of import marked pistols climbing steadily. I guess if you keep it what you paid doesn't really matter; just when you try to sell it that it hurts.
     
    william adams likes this.
  17. 41ManGun

    41ManGun New Member

    21
    Dec 12, 2018
    I’m wondering if this guy took advantage of me again.
    He seemed like a nice guy and said he had a really good RR to swap. I am by no means a WW2 1911A1 expert - not even a novice. So I really don’t know what I’m looking at until I get home and ask you guys. I’m sure everyone would love to spend an hour or more pouring over a potential 1911A1 purchase at a crowded gun show but that is not reasonable. What is reasonable is the person you are dealing with has been vetted somewhat by the gun show organization that he belongs too and that his word is sound. I’m aware of caveat emptor
    Yes, it will be a shooter and I am in no position to buy truly collectible 1911s of any kind.
    However I do believe that this is an unaltered pistol that had to have import marking because it returned to our shores after 1968.
    Does anyone believe this RR 1911A1 with import markings is worth $1900?



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  18. Hardway

    Hardway Well-Known Member

    129
    Nov 23, 2016
    The gun looks to be in pretty good shape and original. If you’re going to use it as a shooter it’s a good gun. You may of overpaid a little, but you could chalk that up to an education. You’re learning a lot about m1911.

    As for you not being able to buy a truly collectible 1911, I think you’re wrong. For 1500-2k you can get a good condition WWII bring back. My lgs has a very good condition 1942 manufactured, listed for 2400.

    There are deals to be had and sometimes we overpay. I’m sure almost everyone reading this thread has overpaid for a gun because we really wanted it or didn’t know exactly what we were buying. I don’t think the gun pictured above is worth more than 1500 and it should probably be a little less than that. Besides just having an import mark, it’s double stamped and ugly on a beautiful gun.

    Go shoot the hell out of it. Maybe you have the best shooter that’s very accurate. Good luck with it.
     
  19. CENTURIATOR

    CENTURIATOR Well-Known Member

    593
    Dec 20, 2018
    Everything evens out, some day you'll find a killer deal or two and it will all balance out. You know, at the end of the day, it's just money. And it's not a real crisis (so, sure you are PO-ed, but ...) ... you have a nice old warhorse there with stories that could be told.
     
    Cop_Out likes this.
  20. Cop_Out

    Cop_Out Pearl Pimp Supporting Addict

    Feb 3, 2017
    Centuriator nailed it with his comment.

    I'm a newb to these guns, as I've only owned a couple of dozen of them, but I can honestly say this - everybody has paid a little more than they should have for one. Everybody.

    You have a great shooter with history you can be proud of, so take it to the range and shoot the daylights out of it!

    Best,
    C

    P.S. Buy Clawson's book. Down the road you'll be glad you did. ;)
     

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