Nice visuals, goes to prove what I have always said, no point in LW guns, less pleasant to shoot and the benefits are so negligible! I will continue to carry my 5' and 4.5" all steel guns along with the 2011's, invest in a quality leather belt and holster and you are good to go!

 

Love your grips

 

Its like they are two cool guys with the same initials…

 

Excellent post and thank you for hard numbers. I often find when I'm fussing over something's weight I'm really fussing over its balance.

 

This is especially true of the 1911 and BHP. I find the 5” gun balances perfectly. The BHP would be the best pistol of all time if it had the trigger feel and reset of the 1911. The best one I have (pictured up there) is “ok”.
The best 1911 trigger is hilariously better.

 

IMHO people frequently mistake balance for weight—and believe it or not, ergonomics can also influence how “heavy” it feels, not just because of balance, but (e.g.,) if it’s the same weight, but one fits your hand better / you have a better grip on it, it will “feel” lighter because you have more positive control over the weight.

Finally, in my opinion trigger pull can also affect “felt” weight—even in pistols of equal weight, if you’re applying more weight / force on the trigger, especially relative to the weight of the pistol and/or your finger has to travel further / longer while applying the force, your brain is going to interpret that as “more work to use / hold = heavier.”

That being said, and I prefer / currently only own only full-size steel frame 1911s, but I would disagree that 10+ ounces (full size steel vs. CCO alloy) is a “negligible” difference when carried on your hip / belt for hours and hours on end.

2 lbs. 13.75 oz. = 45.75 oz.

2 lbs. 2.25 oz. = 34.25 oz.

The full size gun is more than a third (33%) heavier than the lightweight CCO (or the CCO is 25% lighter than the full size, whichever direction you want to go).

~Augee

 

When I was <50 I didn't think about weight. I opted for pure shootability - the 5 inch and the Hi-Power. At just under 60, weight got increasingly important on 10+ hour days armed. Now, at 67, yes, light guns are harder to shoot pin point accurate. But, at the end of the day 6, 8 10 ounces is just that. I love my Kobra Carry LW, i like a LW Commander and I still prefer the Hi-Power to most other non-1911 guns. But when I'm running it's a Glock 26 or a J frame; on a bicycle it's a titanium J (they beat sweat well) and when i'm in a jacket all day, it's a 1911, and my Commanders of steel spend more time than ever at home.

As for weighing guns, I also take great merriment at weighing gun grips. It's surprising what a set of dense 1911 grips can weigh

 

Carry-centric guns.

The 1903 is my favorite “small auto” because it is classy, easy to shoot well, and “small”. It is light, slender, and easy to carry.
In 380 it was WAY ahead of its time, and today with nice sights, a grip treatment, and a durable finish (this one is DLC courtesy of Evolution Armory) it is still a very useful and viable defensive arm for the gentleman to carry.
Loaded mag. 7 rounds of 95 grain jhp.

Today compact 9mm double stack pistols are very small, reliable, and inexpensive. Nowhere near as classy as the 1903, but they work, and are, essentially, much more pistol.
The CSX pictured with full mag of 12 rounds of 147 grain jhp.

At the end of the day, nothing has come close to the reliability, power, lightness, safety, and versatility of the J-frame .38. The thing I stuff in my trousers to walk the dog, 99% of the time, is a J-frame .38 loaded with 135 grain “short barrel” loads, or 148 grain full wadcutters. I have several J-frames, even one magnum gun, and they are the best combination of power to weight, in a very approachable package.
This 442 loaded with 148 grain wads.

Carrying a compact pistol or revolver is going to be the easiest thing most of the time. Do we envision ourselves shooting it out with baddies with a puny revolver in hand? Nope.
Will we be better armed than almost all of the human population with 5 rounds of .38 special in the pants? You betcha!

 

Carry-centric guns.

The 1903 is my favorite “small auto” because it is classy, easy to shoot well, and “small”. It is light, slender, and easy to carry.
In 380 it was WAY ahead of its time, and today with nice sights, a grip treatment, and a durable finish (this one is DLC courtesy of Evolution Armory) it is still a very useful and viable defensive arm for the gentleman to carry.
Loaded mag. 7 rounds of 95 grain jhp.
View attachment 1668814

Today compact 9mm double stack pistols are very small, reliable, and inexpensive. Nowhere near as classy as the 1903, but they work, and are, essentially, much more pistol.

Who did the sight mods on your 1903?

 

Full size w/ rail, 8 rounds 230gr hst, surefire x300

Edit-Correction- 9 rounds 230gr hst

 

You're worried about what other people say? Really?

You're the one carrying it, you decide what works for you.

No G-D Tupperwear pistols here and I carry both 5" steel and LWC. I don't care what people think.

 

I dont think I mentioned anyone else’s opinion…

 

For a discussion board there seem to be a lot of folks who weirdly either don’t understand or don’t like the concept of just having a discussion, especially not without trying to turn it into some sort of argument.

~Augee

 

I like a Commander with 8, just a nice balance. When I had to carry a 9 it was a 92fs and you could tell a full gun and time to reload, plastic is worse. Carrying a light gun is great, but pulling the trigger you know a difference. I see many people carrying Glocks, MPs etc in small guns for comfort in 9 so that's cool if it works for you. I'm not a fan of the 9 so I still carry a 45 with reloads. I'm old but still believe 2 45s are better than 3 9s if you don't Mozambique them.

 

Great thread! Here are a couple of more for reference, both are 15+1 loaded with 124gr

Wilson with aluminum frame is only 3.5oz heavier

 

Interesting…
I dont have any railed 1911s, but I have an M&P Compact and a Beretta M9A1. Let me dig them out

 

Weird… meant to reply to another comment, but it attached it to this one…

~Augee

 

Found one more. Holster is a couple of ounces so this lightweight commander in 45 loaded with 8+1 230gr is 2lbs 3oz.

 

Excellent pics and sharing of info. Thanks.

 

When I see men post comments whining about handgun weight, I just shake my head and wonder if they have their Man Card. I am from a generation that did not complain about weapon-weight.

 

This generation started the whole “lightweight weapon” thing and would cut down M60s to within an inch of their lives removing things like stocks and sights to shave ounces and then came home to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on lightweight weapon and ammunition programs…

~Augee

 

It's not too heavy until it is I guess. Everyone has their own sweet spot. Personally it's about 35oz.

I don't have pictures but here are some I've weighed that come in right around there, in addition to the aluminum CCO which falls right there too as many posters have shown.

CZ P01 with EPS carry and 15+1 124gr
35oz
S&W 3" M66 with 6 135gr
36oz
S&W Shorty 40 with 10+1 180gr
33.5oz

 

Sig 238 with 7 rounds of 95 grain.

3913 with 8 rounds of 147.

Recon 45 with six rounds of 230 grain.

 

When I hear people talk about heavy guns, I think of one, I don’t have a scale to weigh it, but my Desert Eagle in .357 is by far the heaviest pistol I own.

 

My bet is 73 ounces empty

 

Sorry all of my bedside and carry guns are under 27 ounces unloaded. The thought of trying to carry a gun over 2lbs Is crazy. It would cause me to lean to that side. A 5” barrel would be so hard to conceal and stick down to my thigh and would preclude IAWB . How could you sit or drive comfortably? The Dan Wesson 9 mm with 3.5 inch barrel and 25 ounce weight is the biggest and heaviest i would carry.

 

My strategy is to use a duty, velcro belt (inside) liner, but without the actual gun belt, easy to adjust, take off, put on, fast. Carry OWB, but keep the front of the belt at the same level as the belt holding up my pants. Holsters are high rise, although you have to shim the holster at the barrel to push the grip against your body. A ridiculous concealment vest, a CINCH long vest is used to cover up the gun. Something must balance the pistol, so that if you have your holster on the right, then you have to put something on the belt on the left, whether its another pistol or a liter of pop, doesn't matter, but magazines are too light. I haven't done it, but my plan is to carry 1911s cavalry style to be able to sit comfortably. This is not intended to be seriously concealed, but fig leaf, casual concealment that can be easily seen through by people paying any attention.

 

Well, if you’re gonna show all steel pistols, then you’re probably not gonna see much difference in weight. That is the entire point of alloy and polymer frames (2011s). They do make a difference.

This is my Staccato CS fully loaded with 17 rounds of my own aluminum cased 124 gr HST reloads. You couldn’t pay me to carry any all-steel 1911.

 

I only have one plastic pistol. Many of the guns I threw on the scale have alloy frames. The difference in weight is pretty significant. But your Staccato is a great example: a lot of capacity and a very nearly full size grip is possible under 2 pounds.

 

Interesting discussion and comparisons here. I wonder, and since I do not personally own a Glock, what is the comparison of a full-size Government 1911, single stack 9 mm with fully loaded magazine vs. a full size Glock with 21 rds. Just curious.

 

One of these dudes has to have a G17 and a kitchen scale.
A full size 9mm single stack would weigh the same as my Gold Cup Super, above.

 

To my preferences, a 45-48oz. pistol is very pleasant to shoot and no issue to carry at events in a purpose-built OWB rig.
Won't CCW all that though. A good belt & holster certainly helps, but 45oz+ is too much CCW for me.

 

To my preferences, a 45-48oz. pistol is very pleasant to shoot and no issue to carry at events in a purpose-built OWB rig.
Won't CCW all that though. A good belt & holster certainly helps, but 45oz+ is too much CCW for me.

I have taken the AIWB dive pretty fully, and in that place, with a properly set up holster, the big guns are just fine to carry. I have had that 4506 in my pants this last week, every day 18 hours a day. It may sound weird, but the size and relative flatness of the pistol seems to spread the mass around a larger area, making it MORE comfortable than carrying, for example, the CSX. Yeah, the 4506 is way bigger and heavier, but it doesnt FEEL that way in the holster.

 

A Government Model can definitely feel heavy at 4 O'clock, OWB or IWB. If anyone feels more "manly" about carrying heavier guns, it's good that they found something to make them feel that way. I make no bones about actual guns weighing more or less than other actual guns. The method of carry matters quite a bit.

In my experience, the shaving of weight in going from a Government Model to a LW Commander or Officer's Model isn't worth it. You are definitely dropping weight, but when you go from a Government Model to a Sig 365 or SA Hellcat, you're speaking of something that is not only much lighter, but smaller by every dimension and if chambered in 9mm, the little polymer gun will give you more rounds. As has been stated, the method of carry has a lot to do with the perceived weight. AIWB is the real deal and those scared of shooting their d***s off are the new "polymer guns will blow up!" crowd.

In the end, what works for me won't work for others, but I've known that for a long time. My bonafides are all mine and those not written in stone are etched in blood........or maybe they're written in blood and etched in stone? I'll leave that for someone looking for an argument while the rest of us are just having a civil discussion about the honest, actual weight of guns.

 

Heavy guns are an easy, simple way to reduce recoil. There are many ways to control recoil, but weight is effective and stacks with all of them. The discussion seems focused on 9mm, but if you are fine with 9mm in a light gun, maybe you could go to a .45 in a heavy one and double stack mags just lower recoil more, if you live in a State that allows them and your hand fits the fat grip... But, for some people shooting 9mm with a 1911, or 38 Super, part of the point is to get recoil astonishingly low, the target pistol way. That has been done since the 1930's if not before.

 

Well said.
I think you are right about the polymer guns piece. I was AMAZED at the lightness of the M&P Compact when I picked it up.
However, it is not slender and flat, in the ways that the 1911 is. So yes, it has a role to play (for me it is the "hand this gun to the person who thinks they want one and see if they like shooting it" gun)
My M&P has a light mounted and it locked up near an entry door. Beyond that it is forgotten.
By the way, I have sold MANY people on 1911s for defensive use by handing them the M&P (and Glock 19 before that) and had them shoot it for a few mags, then hand them a 9mm 1911 and have them shoot that. It is fun to watch their face as they go from "shooting isnt very much fun" to "I NEED ONE OF THESE!!" in seconds.

 

Well said.
I think you are right about the polymer guns piece. I was AMAZED at the lightness of the M&P Compact when I picked it up.
However, it is not slender and flat, in the ways that the 1911 is. So yes, it has a role to play (for me it is the "hand this gun to the person who thinks they want one and see if they like shooting it" gun)
My M&P has a light mounted and it locked up near an entry door. Beyond that it is forgotten.
By the way, I have sold MANY people on 1911s for defensive use by handing them the M&P (and Glock 19 before that) and had them shoot it for a few mags, then hand them a 9mm 1911 and have them shoot that. It is fun to watch their face as they go from "shooting isnt very much fun" to "I NEED ONE OF THESE!!" in seconds.

I have one of the full sized M&P's with a light as well. This morning I used that light to check out a mule deer that was hit on the highway. Unfortunately, it was blown apart and it ain't even dog food.........but yeah, that gun definitely isn't one of the new "Micro-Compact 9's". The SA Hellcat actually is thinner and flatter than a 1911 and I believe the 365 is as well. Still, I couldn't agree with you more about shooting a 1911 in 9mm. They are an absolute joy and I have a couple that are worth the proverbial "mint", so you'll get no argument out of me!

I love carrying my 1911 at 4 O'clock, the way I did for years. To say that a 1911 and a polymer gun felt the same on hip would be a lie and a denial of physics.

 

Shame about that deer. I see around here that Interstate 70 had a better hunting season than anyone I know. Heck of a lot of antlers on the side of the road.
I handled a new-ish P365, and was pretty surprised by the size and weight for a 17-round pistol. I didn't care for the trigger. And Sig striker guns are like the ONE system that I would not be able to holster in my pants. I guess one with thumb safety would be good. I don't know the models well, but this was a larger grip frame than most of the 365s I have seen. I suppose when the used market for them gets more inexpensive I will grab one. In my experience, the Sig resale values are pretty low, which makes them a good value for a buyer. That little 238 I have was $395 on the shelf "used". With box and mags and appearing unfired.