[dakota1911]

Well I have over fifty years experience messing with them plus now now have the Weigand gauges and tool so I am fluffy and fuzzy with internal extractors in 1911s. Still most automatic pistols use a external extractor. When S&W came out with a 1911 they used an external extractor because that is what they used on almost all their other pistols. Here on one of their early 1911Sc pistols.



Of course their pistols from their Performance Center started using the wide extractor which they then started using on their E Series. Here it is on a Performance Center 945



Where external extractors on 1911s really got a bad reputation is when Kimber introduced theirs. The last Kimber I own has one. It is a Grand Raptor II and I have not had any problems with it but it is a 5 inch pistol and I guess Kimber had more problems with it in the smaller pistols.



Actually it sort of surprised me that Kimber had problems with it as I thought they were sort of copying the Glock design of external extractor. Here on a Glock 36.



And Kahr uses a similar design.



And as a point of interest, here is the external extractor on a Llama 1911 variant.

 

[1911fanatic]

IMO, JMB put an internal extractor in because it does not require a tiny spring and roll pin, which would get lost in the field. The 1911 needed to be serviceable in the field. Those guys didn't have a nice work bench like we have. Therefore, the extractor can not be a pita to get out and clean/service.

That's one of the benefits of the 1911. It's SO simple! It needed to be if you had to rip a slide apart in a tent in the middle of a warzone to retention or clean. Try that with a modern pistol with no tools! Yeah right. And you'll lose an eye from that little tiny stupid spring.


David

 

[1911fanatic]

This isn't to say that internal extractors are better. But in the time period of the introduction of the 1911, I'm sure that the steel used than doesn't stack up against what we enjoy today. So even if the external design came to JMB, serviceability probably trumped a potentially better design due to the stress on parts that couldn't be expected to last the life of the gun. Just another thought.


David

 

[American Crafters]

I'm not a 1911 purist although I can appreciate the ones that stay completely true to JM Brownings design , I am a fan of a lot of the improvements/upgrades , but the external extractor isn't one ,

 

[Guest]

I have a Sig Nitron, and a Full custom from Harp. I'm not knowledgeable enough to tell a difference in the extractor function when I shoot, so to me, It makes no difference. Also, the look doesn't bother me at all. Now, if you want to talk ugly, lets talk about the Sig's square slide. Now that's ugly....

Very funny about the slide. Its interesting on how you can change one little thing from "perfection" and create something ugly!

 

[Guest]

I'm not a 1911 purist although I can appreciate the ones that stay completely true to JM Brownings design , I am a fan of a lot of the improvements/upgrades , but the external extractor isn't one ,

I agree entirely. It just breaks the lines of the gun. And then you see the little holes in the slide for securing pins.

 

[doug570]

Having Sigs with the Kimbers and Colts I dont see much difference as I have yet to have a problem either. Both function well on a well made 1911. As for looks it does bother me as much as the front serrations on the slide. Just me but those are nasty ugly. Many people like them I dont and they have no value.

 

[Bender]

Where external extractors on 1911s really got a bad reputation is when Kimber introduced theirs. The last Kimber I own has one. It is a Grand Raptor II and I have not had any problems with it but it is a 5 inch pistol and I guess Kimber had more problems with it in the smaller pistols.

Kimber's external extractor suffered from weak spring tension. A Wolff "extra power" extractor spring helped those Kimbers with problematic extraction.

 

[bnaples]

Front serrations.....

 

[bnaples]

........yeah they suck.

 

[Murphy]

Well I don't consider a gun with an external extractor a 1911. They are but not true to the pattern so NOT! But both Sig and S&W make some very nice, accurate, reliable 1911's.
I think the reasons behind the external is that once designed properly all that's needed for it to work is simply "some assembly required" they work. They don't need to be adjusted or tensioned. A coil spring used to tension it lasts much longer than "flat spring" used to tension the internal. The original takes ten times the work (time) To make it work and very rarely do production factory guns with internal extractors, come set up correctly. Which means more warranty work. The demand is still strong for the original. I just finished tuning the extractor on a brand new Colt Commander. It's a very common defect.

 

[rdebs357]

The early designs for the Colt automatic pistol had external extractors. The Colt pocket hammer pistol had an external extractor. The military was the one who wanted an internal extractor so grunts could field strip easier and replace broken extractors as them breaking was about the only issue after a few thousand rounds. A modern manufactured external extractor is more reliable and easier to manufacture than an internal one and requires no tuning. Modern materials and manufacturing techniques really can make an unreliable weapon reliable. Not that a 1911 wasn't reliable but making it last longer is never a down side.

 

[Razer]

The early designs for the Colt automatic pistol had external extractors. The Colt pocket hammer pistol had an external extractor. The military was the one who wanted an internal extractor so grunts could field strip easier and replace broken extractors as them breaking was about the only issue after a few thousand rounds. A modern manufactured external extractor is more reliable and easier to manufacture than an internal one and requires no tuning. Modern materials and manufacturing techniques really can make an unreliable weapon reliable. Not that a 1911 wasn't reliable but making it last longer is never a down side.

Interesting first post, resurrecting a 6+ year old thread.

 

[Uncle Bob]

Interesting first post, resurrecting a 6+ year old thread.

Curse of this software and Vbulletin. It suggests related threads and users don't bother to look at dates.

 

[ferrarif1fan]

External extractors have been around for a long time and used on lots of different pistols. Honestly, until about 4 years ago when I got my first 1911, I didn't realize internal extractors were a thing. On the one hand, I like that the 1911/2011 extractor is a simple piece of spring steel that's fairly easy to remove and clean. But on the other hand, I've seen how finicky obtaining the proper tension can be. That's where an external extractor I feel is better. I really like the Wilson design on the new EDC X9. Remove one allen screw, and you can remove all the components for cleaning and to clean the extractor channel.

If I had my druthers, I think I'd go external.

 

[rdebs357]

Sorry I didn't see the date until after I posted. I am very bad at that. But since it is here again isn't the entire idea of discussion boards to help further knowledge and innovation? I love the Colt automatic pistol platform. There are very few differences mechanically between all of them including the 1911. Have any of you guys ever handled an early one chambered in 38 acp that had the rear sight safety? And still had 2 links on the barrel and no grip safety? It was still the same firearm basically just hadn't finished the development stages yet lol

 

[seagiant]

Hi,
What we enjoy today as the 1911...

Came about at the end of the day, by not what JMB wanted fully, but what the US ARMY wanted at the time, and...

JMB and the Colt Engineers, gave it to them!