It's more probably to do with the extractor tension or tuning.

 

Give this a read. :happy:

https://aegisacademy.com/blogs/test-blog-post/diagnosing-pistol-malfunctions-part-3-failure-to-eject

 

I built a .45 ACP Commander based on some parts

It's more probably to do with the extractor tension or tuning. What size and caliber is the pistol and what weight of springs are you using?

 

That takes care of the size and caliber lol. If you used the factory spring weights then my guess would still be the extractor.

 

I bought a new Wilson Combat extractor.
I got a Wilson Combat full length guide rod that came with a spring and I don't have the spring specs handy.
I'll look at the link in the above reply and see what I can figure out.
It isn't exactly a failure to eject though
Thanks for the info, Gentlemen

 

Failure to eject or erratic ejection often gets handled in the same way. Standard spring weights should be 18-20# recoil and 23# hammer or mainspring.

 

It has new recoil springs and a new WC extractor and ejector.
I looked up the specs on the recoil springs on the site where I bought them. The specs weren't printed.
I got a WC shock buff kit that came with 2 recoil springs that were specified as being EP and RP (extra power & reduced power) I used the lighter one.
Would using the heavier recoil spring change the ejection pattern?
Probably would.

I guess that the question that remains is: Does that extended ejector look like the right part for a Commander?
I see ejectors that are a lot of different lengths in the front, I'm sure that would have an effect.
Are there any suggestions on where to go with modifying that, should the heavier recoil spring not remedy the issue?

(The pic of the ejector is on my first post)

 

 

Time for some learnin, and trash the shockbuff.

 

Ext. ejector will work in a 45 , proper shaping of the nose is helpful.
Also probably more important is fitting, polishing and adjusting the extractor.

I prefer a shorter ejector in 38 super, 10mm and 45acp, due to case length.
Longer or extended in 9mm and 40S&W

 

JayBeeKay, you may already know all there is to know about tuning an extractor but here's a refresher for your review: LINK.

 

Beautiful
I was about to do a search but got distracted by the election thread

 

I've been following through on this.
I went to the range with a few extractors and tried the two that most closely match what's described in the link by 'Steve In Allentown'
I noticed a slight difference and I'm going to get busy making an extractor that's proper.
But I'm suspecting that the EJECTOR is the culprit. Because regardless of which extractor I try, spent cases are ejecting straight up and back. Some empties bounced off my forehead.
Could someone please show me a pic or dimensions for an EJECTOR that works well on a COMMANDER?
That would be hugely appreciated !
Thanks

 

I've been following through on this.
I went to the range with a few extractors and tried the two that most closely match what's described in the link by 'Steve In Allentown'

It's very rare that you can just drop in an extractor and have it function properly. The geometry of the part must be adjusted for the specific pistol, the deflection must also be adjusted for the specific pistol, and the tension must be set after the first two things are done.

Because regardless of which extractor I try, spent cases are ejecting straight up and back. Some empties bounced off my forehead.

Brass flying back at you or popping straight up can be caused by several things. Most often these are symptoms of the extractor losing control of the fired case resulting in it not clearing the ejection port quickly enough to avoid being struck by the rearward rushing slide. The forward edge of the ejection port hits the fired case batting it straight back at the shooter.

Less often is that the fired case gets ejected straight into the slide at the bottom edge of the ejection port which can cause it to pop straight up.

A simple diagnostic test is to fire some rounds. Then before you clean or wipe down the pistol very carefully inspect the area around the ejection port inside and and out looking for brass smears. Take note of where the smears are located. If there are no smears inside the slide below the ejection port or on the bottom edge of the ejection port then it's unlikely that the ejector is the problem. It's probably the extractor that needs attention.

If the cases are striking below the ejection port or right on its bottom edge the very first step is to correctly fit the extractor then test fire the pistol. If the problem persists then file the front of the ejector nose very slightly to move the initial contact point with the case lower. This should have the effect of angling the case upward as it hits the ejector allowing it to clear the ejection port.

Could someone please show me a pic or dimensions for an EJECTOR that works well on a COMMANDER?

Here's a bad pic of an ejector in a Commander. Notice that it is perfectly flat and square. That's what all my ejectors look like in shorter than 5" 1911s. They all work flawlessly. That's not say that they wouldn't benefit from some tweaking but the cases exit the pistol cleanly so I'm not inclined to spend time trying to alter their flight path to make them go in a specific clock direction (i.e. I don't care if the fly in a 5 o'clock direction or a 4 o'clock direction. Either is good for me.).

Here's another pic of a Commander ejector. Note how long it is. When I fit a Commander ejector I start out with it being so long that a live 230gr FMJ factory round can't be ejected. Then I slowly reduce the ejector's length until it will just barely eject a live round. I've found that this combined with a correctly fit extractor gives excellent results. Be advised, this pic was taken before final fitting which is why the underside of the ejector is not yet relieved to avoid contact with the magazines.

Remember that the extractor and ejector work together to kick the fired brass out of the pistol.

 

Beautiful
I was about to do a search but got distracted by the election thread

Get rid of the shock buff. They cause more headaches than they're worth.

 

That's excellent - I'll study this and apply it.
I'm beninning to understand that Commanders can have some unique problems because of their short stroke.
I'll shape my new Wilson extractor to match the one in the thread on extractor tuning and go from there.

 

. . . Commanders can have some unique problems because of their short stroke.

The short stroke gives the mechanism less time to eject fired cases and less time for the magazine spring to push the stack of cartridges up into firm contact with the feed lips.

I'll shape my new Wilson extractor to match the one in the thread on extractor tuning and go from there.

Be careful.

• The drawings are not to scale.
• Remove less metal than you think you need to. Once it's gone, you can't put it back.
• One of the pictures shows a very poorly tuned extractor. Don't use that one as a guide.
• Be sure to make yourself a deflection gauge and a hook-to-breechface gauge.
• You're working with very small dimensions so be delicate when filing.

You MUST set the deflection correctly. Failure to do so will compromise the functionality of the extractor.

 

Excellent - Thank you very much!

 

Vol 1
My hood isn't beveled there, so at some point I'll bevel it there anyhow.
Thanks for taking the time to point thest things out to me

 

My pleasure. We're all here to learn and help one another.

 

Hey Steve -
Well - I made the decision to get to work on that extractor last night.
Too bad I started on the new WC one - I thought for sure that one would be close to perfect, but it needed about .020" removed, then by that time the tension wasn't right.
But I have it figured out how to sculpt one of those little things ... I think I overdid it a bit
I have 3 more extractors to play with if it's not right... We'll see
Cycling it by hand, the ejection pattern was noticably different.
Thanks

Enjoy your Thanksgiving!

 

. . . it needed about .020" removed, then by that time the tension wasn't right.

Happy Thanksgiving!

From what surface did you remove .020"?

What do you mean by "the tension wasn't right"?

 

Surface E
In the diagram... Might have been .015" but it was a lot more than I expected I'd need to remove.
I lost track of my measurement.
Then before I was done, I'd taken enough material away that there wasn't any tension.
I had to bend it - Per Jerry Kuhnhausen's specs.
I didn't remove any material from the hook though.
I was concerned that in the process of polishing surfaces C&D I may have rounded the edge of the hook
But the hook stayed sharp.
I taped some pieces of fine hacksaw blade together to make a tiny file and get into the groove.

At this point it's a bit tighter than spec.
But before, I was running it with clearance between the case rim and the groove of the extractor, as the extractor came out of the package.

I have 3 other extractors to work opn to get it right after I find out how this goes

 

Surface E In the diagram...

Good start.

Removing material from the locating pad is what you need to do to set the deflection. As you lower the height of the locating pad the more deflection there will be. Each time you remove material you need to test fit the extractor to see what the resulting deflection is. You need to bend the extractor a little each time you remove material from the locating pad so that when you shove the extractor back into the slide the locating pad will be in contact with the tunnel. If it's not in contact with the tunnel, you will not be able to get a true reading of the amount of deflection.

The most common way to screw this up is to remove too much material from the locating pad resulting in too much deflection. You don't want more than .010" of deflection if at all possible. I've been there, done that, and have the t-shirt to prove it. Learn from my mistake.

Then before I was done, I'd taken enough material away that there wasn't any tension.

This would be unusual. Even if you completely removed the locating pad, the extractor could be bent to contact the case rim and apply pressure. In fact, with no locating pad you'd have way, way too much deflection and no matter what the tension was on the extractor (within reason) the pistol would have functional problems.

Not long ago I tried to fit a couple of Wilson extractors to a couple of Caspian slides but the locating pads were so short that even right out of the box these extractors could not be adjusted for deflection. In other words, they had way, way too much deflection even with their unmolested locating pads. Those extractors could not be fit to those slides without doing some fancy welding to add height to their locating pads.

I had to bend it - Per Jerry Kuhnhausen's specs.

So now you know the extractor will always have to be bent so that the locating pad is in contact with the tunnel wall. Forget Jerry's specs. Set the deflection first and correctly. Then add tension. With minimal deflection you'll have a tough time bending the extractor enough to compromise feeding.

I didn't remove any material from the hook though.

Remember to check that the edge of the hook claw isn't in contact with the case as you go through the fitting process. It's not unusual to experience this contact as the height of the locating pad is reduced. The claw depth should be as long as possible without contacting the case. A range of .030" - .034" is considered good.

You already know that setting tension comes after setting deflection. Also, after setting deflection you can set the claw depth. Stop short of the range I noted and test fit.

Don't just file the claw down to .030" at the beginning. It's an iterative process. Step by step. Tiny bites at a time. Once the steel is gone, it's gone forever.

I taped some pieces of fine hacksaw blade together to make a tiny file and get into the groove.

You're talking about surface C the tensioning wall, right? Be careful. You don't want a 90 degree angle where the tensioning wall and the hook meet. That will weaken the hook and can lead to the hook breaking off from the extractor.

But before, I was running it with clearance between the case rim and the groove of the extractor, as the extractor came out of the package.

Yeah, that's obviously not right. The case rim and the groove (tensioning wall) must make contact. They must be the only contact point between the case and the extractor.

 

That's interesting - Once someone figures out how to make a miniature sculpture using some hand made tools, it's a lot easier to make progress.
I also cut a slice off a diamond stone to make myself a miniature file.

I was surprised that there ended up being no tension on it after I'd taken about .010" off the locating pad.
Anyhow, just discovering the basics about the geometry of this thing.
I think I get the concept at this point.
I have to study the finer points of the geometry of the bend/tension. Because that should have been done first.

I'll follow along with what you said and see how my next one turns out.

Probably add some pics when I get home and dig through my stuff

Thanks

 

I once had a similar ejection pattern in a commander. I experimented with recoil springs. The heavier the spring , the farther the casings ejected toward the front of the gun . The extractor tension was just fine. But a 22 lb recoil spring made it kick out at about 3:30 and with much less force .

 

Merry Christmas to anyone reading
I put this project on the back burner for a while. I'm sure you kno how that goes.
But I'll be back at it pretty soon.
But - Something I've discovered is that my Commander is one of the type that has full-size internal dimensions.
I searched and found info on that and from what I see it isn't unusual.
But I'm sure that would have something to do with the ejection pattern, as the stroke is shortened, compared to how it would be if it were a true Commander frame.

Thanks for any information - As always
Cheers!

 

One thing I haven't seen mentioned and maybe I'm off base with this, but maybe not. It's hard to tell from your ejector picture if it's a sub-caliber ejector or not? A Cmdr pistol requires a sub-caliber or one could say a 9mm ejector.. and you are correct with a full length frame with Cmdr slide you open yourself up to multiple possible issues. Short cycling can cause a plethora full of complications. I just shortened the rails snd guide rod abutment on a clients Les Baer Stinger. The thing with the sub caliber ejector is that it's cut in such a way that the nose of the ejector is closer to the firing pin hole.

 

I have the feeling that I'll end up shortening the rails and guide rod abutment on this one as well, by the time I'll be happy with it.
I have a different Commander frame that's a proper design and I'll try it out and I'm thinking it will probably be right.
Something else I'm seeing with the Commander based on a GI frame is that there's more pre-load on the recoil spring and it makes it harder to pull back the slide by hand..

Thanks for the reply - Christmas cheer to you

 

How you tune your pistol by swapping springs depends on your objective.

If your objective is to get back on target as fast as possible, you'll want the pistol to end up parallel to the ground after the pistol returns to battery without having to move it up or down yourself.

Here are a couple of videos that may be of interest in this regard:

 

Good videos- Thanks
I have a Govt size 1911 that I'm going to experiment with and see what I can figure out by playing mr potato head with extractors and ejectors.
I also ordered a longer ejector for my Commander
When I bought my ejector, it was supposed to be extended for a Commander, but I think that it's possible the Commanders that are build on an original Govt size frame require a longer one.