[Jim w.]

True, but what is the alternative, sell some guns cheap and then raise prices?
I don't think that will work.

Something does, else how did Atlas, frex, get famous?

 

[Nater]

True, but what is the alternative, sell some guns cheap and then raise prices?
I don't think that will work.

Something does, else how did Atlas, frex, get famous?

Atlas used to be cheaper (and you could call them up and custom order a gun to your spec (slide cuts, etc etc). That was many many years ago. That being said, the industry was much smaller, so it was easier to make a name for yourself.

 

[Winter001]

There is going to continue to be new companies popping up all the time with offerings at these price points, the fact of the matter is there is more demand for guns at this price point than supply. We as consumers are going to have to be really through in our research before purchasing. Depending on the people behind a company I’m willing to try out a new entry to the market, but I really need to know (I.e. Alpha American - Tim is great)

 

[BCT]

I would like to see a new company/offering come onto the market in a more realistic, affordable way. Release your product with a realistic, affordable price. Build your reputation with a honest product. Don't flood the influencers with free guns to build hype. Let the gun do the talking, and then bring the price up to what the current market is if it's truly a good product. Just because Atlas or Infinity can charge premium prices doesn't mean a new company without a track record can also.

If the gun is good, people will pay. But right now, too many builders are asking premium prices for unproven products.

 

[Pappabear]

I find it shocking that a new entry will come into the market with a $5k offering. Who buys that gun over a used Atlas or a new MPA ? But I learn something new every day.

EVERY DAY

PB

 

[VegasSig]

I would like to see a new company/offering come onto the market in a more realistic, affordable way. Release your product with a realistic, affordable price. Build your reputation with a honest product. Don't flood the influencers with free guns to build hype. Let the gun do the talking, and then bring the price up to what the current market is if it's truly a good product. Just because Atlas or Infinity can charge premium prices doesn't mean a new company without a track record can also.

If the gun is good, people will pay. But right now, too many builders are asking premium prices for unproven products.

Just make sure the usual 2011 Gun Tubers don't see this comment, because those shills will all run out of the woodworks defending every gun they got to make a video with.

Ok, maybe that was a bit rough... but I'm not that far off either...

 

[2011Dave]

I would like to see a new company/offering come onto the market in a more realistic, affordable way. Release your product with a realistic, affordable price. Build your reputation with a honest product. Don't flood the influencers with free guns to build hype. Let the gun do the talking, and then bring the price up to what the current market is if it's truly a good product. Just because Atlas or Infinity can charge premium prices doesn't mean a new company without a track record can also.

If the gun is good, people will pay. But right now, too many builders are asking premium prices for unproven products.

Closest to that has been RC to my eye. Around 4k to start. Inching up now and expanding the offering.

 

[2011Dave]

I find it shocking that a new entry will come into the market with a $5k offering. Who buys that gun over a used Atlas or a new MPA ? But I learn something new every day.

EVERY DAY

PB

Exactly. Was just having this conversation with some fellow 2011 fans. I got yet another perfect quality Atlas gun (a Nyx) last week and it occurred to me to ask them “why would anyone buy one of these new market entrants instead of an Atlas”?

The answer we arrived at was that buyers are gambling on quality, shootability, and company support, solely/primarily in a bid for better looks.

 

[2011Dave]

There is going to continue to be new companies popping up all the time with offerings at these price points, the fact of the matter is there is more demand for guns at this price point than supply. We as consumers are going to have to be really through in our research before purchasing. Depending on the people behind a company I’m willing to try out a new entry to the market, but I really need to know (I.e. Alpha American - Tim is great)

Yup, we’ve seen the enemy and it’s us lol. 2011 market participants are snapping up every new builder in a blur of retailer and guntuber hype.

(btw - I agree with your comment re Tim and AA, but even so his guns are not selling well and were offered at 25% off msrp last weekend!)

 

[Winter001]

Yup, we’ve seen the enemy and it’s us lol. 2011 market participants are snapping up every new builder in a blur of retailer and guntuber hype.

(btw - I agree with your comment re Tim and AA, but even so his guns are not selling well and were offered at 25% off msrp last weekend!)

That’s a shame to hear, Tim builds a hell of a gun. My AAF 3 commander was my first foray into guns above the Staccato and it’s a keeper, I don’t think I would part with it

 

[Nolf1344]

If it’s the guy that was behind L10/Rogue Tactical then this is not the same as the many 2011 bandwagon-hopping companies we’ve seen pop up recently.

 

[Nutsey Fagen]

6 grand and it looks like a Vanta clone with downs syndrome.

I'll have to pass on this one.

 

[Nutsey Fagen]

Exactly. Was just having this conversation with some fellow 2011 fans. I got yet another perfect quality Atlas gun (a Nyx) last week and it occurred to me to ask them “why would anyone buy one of these new market entrants instead of an Atlas”?

The answer we arrived at was that buyers are gambling on quality, shootability, and company support, solely/primarily in a bid for better looks.

I dont know, I sort of view these people as sort of the same type of people who 10 years ago would show up to work talking about their baller AR that they picked up for 4 grand its its just mix and match that somebody marked up 300 percent.

They could have bought a Knights Armament or a built up BCM/Colt for the same if not less money, but they decide to blow 4 grand on some radical defense type bullshit.

In short, people that have limited knowledge and deep pockets. For example, that collector dude on youtube. Half of his collection is just junk with a high price tag.

 

[midnightindustries]

Mixed feelings on this. I agree with the previous comments in that there is no question that these new offerings are overpriced across the board. Then again, I'm a firm believer in the free market; if that's what they can get for them, that's what they should price them at to start. If it really is the OG Rogue Tactical guys doing this, that would ease my mind a bit. I've shot some older rogue tactical builds and they are great guns. I'm somewhat tempted to order one and see how it does, merely out of curiosity. Best case scenario: I get a great (perhaps somewhat overpriced) gun to add to the collection. Worst case: I put 1000 rounds through it, find it lacking, and resell it for 80% of what I paid. Not the worst outcome, if the latter.....

 

[JiminAZ]

Nothing wrong with a machinist cranking out guns but…….

You need real gun guys in management to assure that the guns perform in ways that only gun guys can sense. A real competitor is very very sensitive to the subtle aspects of ergonomics and performance that actually make a gun special.

Seems to me that there is an industry pattern of long run success that is built into the culture of companies started by competitors or serious shooters/frustrated end users.

Bill Wilson was frustrated as a shooter with the offerings at the time. Result: Wilson Combat and arguably the entire NW Arkansas 1911 industry.

Or Adam at Atlas. The man shoots. The perfect zero is the result.

or Don Fredenhagen at Venom

Charyn and Mercier

Ben Hayes

I think most of the guys at SACS were shooters and look what spun out of that: Baer, Rock River, Schauland/ACW.

Staccato has figured it out, mostly by solving the magazine problem and delivering the reliability demanded by the LE/Mil market.

MPA is shooter driven.

I’ve seen Jason Burton shoot. He whipped me on a dueling tree in a class.

One can design something “cool” in CAD and machine it. But does it run/work better than current offerings?

Give me a company run by a gun guy who feels the need to solve a problem, please. When the problem gets solved we all get a better mousetrap.

 

[azguy1911]

Hey, it's why Baskin Robbins has 31 flavors of ice cream, it'll resonate with someone

 

[KOVERT]

Mixed feelings on this. I agree with the previous comments in that there is no question that these new offerings are overpriced across the board. Then again, I'm a firm believer in the free market; if that's what they can get for them, that's what they should price them at to start. If it really is the OG Rogue Tactical guys doing this, that would ease my mind a bit. I've shot some older rogue tactical builds and they are great guns. I'm somewhat tempted to order one and see how it does, merely out of curiosity. Best case scenario: I get a great (perhaps somewhat overpriced) gun to add to the collection. Worst case: I put 1000 rounds through it, find it lacking, and resell it for 80% of what I paid. Not the worst outcome, if the latter.....

You'd like the roll marks next to San Diego CA on the frame then 😎

 

[midnightindustries]

You'd like the roll marks next to San Diego CA on the frame then 😎

We'll see when that Reaper comes in

 

[LordTobias]

theyre also trying to sell sandvipers for $ 10k….pound sand.

Yeah, they should spend some time at the nearest beach with those prices.

 

[LordTobias]

Exactly. Was just having this conversation with some fellow 2011 fans. I got yet another perfect quality Atlas gun (a Nyx) last week and it occurred to me to ask them “why would anyone buy one of these new market entrants instead of an Atlas”?

The answer we arrived at was that buyers are gambling on quality, shootability, and company support, solely/primarily in a bid for better looks.

Literally this is the answer. I personally hate the slide cuts on most Atlas guns, and that immediately turns me off.

Is it stupid?

Yes.

But it's my money and I'll be stupid with it.