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Thoughts on a 5.7 1911 or 2011

7.6K views 34 replies 20 participants last post by  Kevin Rohrer  
#1 ·
Thinking the other day how fun a 5.7 in 1911 or 2011 optics ready (maybe SRO) would be to shoot.
The capacity on a 2011 would be a plus.
How many rounds of 5.7 would 140mm 2011 mag hold?

Share your thoughts on this?
 
#7 ·
@Xringchaser has one and enjoys it. I like the theory and .32 caliber is a joy that he and I share, but I just don't see anything that makes it worth investing in......yet. I think I have the same question as many, "Aside from one or two additional rounds in the mag, what is this really giving me over the 9mm?" and while I accept that it isn't that simple, for many people that is the biggest hangup. At least from what I've seen on this board. Is it worth it to invest in new guns, new cases and new bullets if one is already shooting 9mm?

I have no doubt that performance in the .30SC is impressive. Bullet construction is amazing and the velocities impressive. The 100&115gr. offerings look great, but right on par with 9mm performance. The NHC offerings are nice guns, but the M&P model chambered for it seems to be the most practical application and of course at something like a $3k savings. If your carry gun is a .380, the .30SC M&P looks pretty darned good.

I think the idea taken a little further could be interesting, or it could be worthless. What if the .32 bullets were put into a further necked down .357Sig case(or something like that)? Reloading sounds like a pain, but I would think that velocity would be staggering.

I have no firsthand experience, but I looked hard at this round when it was announced and I am intrigued still.
 
#12 ·
I've owned a Nighthawk. Played with several more. I've also played with STI's plenty. They're both great guns. But I'd give the edge to NHC. They're functional works of art, plain and simple. Their attention to detail is typically very impressive.
STI's are geared towards the race gun community in my mind. They make nice what needs to be made nice. They won't make things seamless or polish every edge like NHC will.
Both are solid 1911 style builders.

I know that's a generic answer, but I have less experience shooting double stack 1911 type pistols.
 
#16 ·
@Sevens I suppose that for me, the ballistics of the .30SC would need to be improved upon, especially in a 1911 sized gun. The .32NAA is a fine concept for a pocket gun. I have never fired a Guardian, but I am familiar with it and the cartridge. I feel like in a gun that small, which for me currently would be a .32 or .380acp, I personally want the heaviest FMJ or cast bullet for the sake of penetration over expansion.

I suppose the Tokarev round could apply or the .30 Luger? Maybe that FK BRNO round that came out a few years back? I can't and won't speak for the OP, but I would need to see something that gave shocking chronograph numbers to go down to a .30 or .32 caliber bullet in a full size gun.

From what I've seen, the .30SC does a really good job, it just does a job that the 9mm already does. I don't have an issue with that, I just am far too heavily invested in 9mm and my only real use currently for .32 JHP's are 85 & 100gr. XTP's for my .32H&R's.

There is a lot to play with. Look at what people are doing with the 9x23 and it's true, as much as I love the .357 Mag, it is a revolver, lever and single action cartridge. It is my favorite cartridge and as much as I want the Coonan or Desert Eagle to be as cool as they seem, I also wanted the C.O.P. 4-shot derringer to be cool and........it's not.
 
#18 ·
I shot and reloaded the 5.7 when it first came out. Basically you have a 24-60 grain projectile which has great potential in a rifle, but neutered in a 4" or 5" barreled pistol. The pistol was pretty effective with the restricted SS190 bullet as it defeated body armor and kevlar helmets out to 200-300 yards. With the plastic tipped sports bullets available for civilian use out of a 5" barrel they have similar ballistics as a 22 magnum without the armor piercing capacity of the SS190s. Hey I guess to each his own, I had the FN57, shot it for a few years, sold the FN57, dies, holster and ammo for more than I paid for it, so win-win as far as I'm concerned.
 
#20 ·
I have often said that if I had enough cases, there isn't much I'd be scared to take on handloading for. From what I've seen, the pressure of the 5.7 combined with the small case really does keep me away. In all fairness, I don't have a use for the 5.7 round even if I was willing to reload it but the pressure would give me pause. I fired a full auto PS90 and it was a lot of fun, but pretty darned expensive to feed. I fired my cousin's FN57 handgun in '08 and it was interesting, but didn't do anything for me that made me want one and the neutered ammo didn't help anything.
 
#23 ·
I wouldn't be afraid of the pressure, I suspect with your experience that you would not be either. I believe that sourcing the best component bullets for the round would be annoying but the biggest roadblock I've heard about with this round is that the brass is coated in some kind of a lacquer that promotes it's operation and that the select few who do reload the 5.7 much prefer the cases NOT be cleaned prior to loading.

The two-dozen plus different rounds I already feed are plenty for me! 🤣 The .22 TCM is one that I actually would enjoy but again, sourcing the best component bullets would seem to be the biggest hurdle here.
 
#26 · (Edited)
The fireballs are the result of using an excessively slow powder that's still burning as it exits the barrel. The .22 TCM needs a slow-burning powder to generate enough breech thrust for reliable unlocking and cycling. I've found Ramshot Enforcer to be the go-too powder with AA TCM right behind. They're both faster burning than H110.
What makes the .22 TCM "9R" the go to caliber is the cost of components is cheap - new brass, bullets are available from Armscor. Even so, brass can be formed from .223 rifle brass. I use a multi-step-down process that starts by cutting the case to a precise length then feeding through a set of custom ground dies to end up with the .22TCM case without annealing and correct neck thickness.
But the "9R" is THE .22TCM one should be looking for unless welded to the idea of a 1911. Conversion barrels can be had for both Glock 17 and 19, and MAPP FS and MS. I have several Glocks set up as 22TCM9R with 19+1rd mags which puts it on par with the FiveSeven only in a smaller, more ergonomic package, and of course the TCM9R round is several hundred feet per second faster than the 5.7x28. Even from my Glock 19, using 5.56x24 "spec" ammo, the Speer 46gr. JHP-FP reachs 1,800 fps from a 4" barrel.
Most importantly, factory ammo for the 22 TCM9R is available and not terribly expensive and the 39gr. JHP "bubble nose" bullet meant for the 9R will put a hole through steel plate the 9mm barely dents. 22TCM penetration factor is around 12 compared to the 9mm at 5.5.
 
#27 ·
I've looked at the 22TCM/9mm guns and I won't lie, it is interesting and the price of entry makes it pretty easy. RIA guns are incredible for the money and I have owned and fired many before I got all fancy and s***. @Sevens the lacquer on the 5.7 cases is an interesting fact that I was not aware of. I try to keep my cartridges down, but every time I kick one out of bed, it or another two comes crawling under the blankets while I sleep. How many times can a man "get out of .44 Special"? Four. The answer is four, just so you know. Ha!

@Kilibreaux Do you work for RIA? Because you're doing a fine sales job! That is very good info. I am curious and the fact that the 22TCM is chambered in an RIA bolt action rifle is appealing as well. I wouldn't carry a cartridge like that, just because I can't imagine many scenarios where punching holes through steel would really come into play, but I live in the middle of nowhere on the SE side of Oregon and I am always looking for guns that can potentially knock over coyotes at long range and a 22TCM pistol/rifle combo is very interesting.

I don't want to turn and cut .223 cases, but as I said before, if I started with enough cases or had access to more I'm game for a lot. Straight wall cases are nice and easy, but the velocity that comes out of bottleneck cases is undeniable. If I ever get my hands on a proper .256 Win. Mag rifle and quite frankly, T/C single shots are about the only "proper" ones ever made, I'd load for that like crazy without a single properly stamped case, but that's just necking down a .357. I load my .250 Savage with .22-250 brass, but that is simply necking up. As incredible as the .35 Whelen is, even better is the ability to run '06 or even .270 brass through the sizing die and have a .35 Whelen case.
 
#31 ·
I've looked at the 22TCM/9mm guns and I won't lie, it is interesting and the price of entry makes it pretty easy. RIA guns are incredible for the money and I have owned and fired many before I got all fancy and s***. @Sevens the lacquer on the 5.7 cases is an interesting fact that I was not aware of. I try to keep my cartridges down, but every time I kick one out of bed, it or another two comes crawling under the blankets while I sleep. How many times can a man "get out of .44 Special"? Four. The answer is four, just so you know. Ha!

@Kilibreaux Do you work for RIA? Because you're doing a fine sales job! That is very good info. I am curious and the fact that the 22TCM is chambered in an RIA bolt action rifle is appealing as well. I wouldn't carry a cartridge like that, just because I can't imagine many scenarios where punching holes through steel would really come into play, but I live in the middle of nowhere on the SE side of Oregon and I am always looking for guns that can potentially knock over coyotes at long range and a 22TCM pistol/rifle combo is very interesting.

I don't want to turn and cut .223 cases, but as I said before, if I started with enough cases or had access to more I'm game for a lot. Straight wall cases are nice and easy, but the velocity that comes out of bottleneck cases is undeniable. If I ever get my hands on a proper .256 Win. Mag rifle and quite frankly, T/C single shots are about the only "proper" ones ever made, I'd load for that like crazy without a single properly stamped case, but that's just necking down a .357. I load my .250 Savage with .22-250 brass, but that is simply necking up. As incredible as the .35 Whelen is, even better is the ability to run '06 or even .270 brass through the sizing die and have a .35 Whelen case.
I guess I do sound like an RIA shill, but I'm not. I do recognize the superior performance of the 22TCM and 22TCM9r over the 5.7x28 which is a fine round, but is handicapped by bullet selection. I suppose the 22TCM/9R is also handicapped in it's own way.
I "invented" the 5.56x24 when I was unable to obtain 39 grain "bubble nose" JHP bullets from Armscor for the .22TCM9R. The 5.56x24 chambers safely in the .22TCM, but allows the use of handloaded .224" bullets such as the Speer 40 grain Spire point, or Speer 46 grain JFP. Handloads can drive the Speer 40gr. SP to over 2,000 fps which leads to the ability to punch through thick steel plate of around 10 gauge or more, from a round that can be fired from a converted Glock 17 or 19.
Armscor has been good about supplying enough cases and bullets so we hand loaders don't have to resort to extreme measures and if you can get the nickel plated cases and 39gr. bullets that most likely the best way forward, but if you can't, being able to form the cases from .223 brass, and load traditional .224" rifle bullets is worthwhile - you sure can't do that with the 5.7x28!
If anyone cares, go to www.ammoguide.com and you'll find loads for the 5.56x24 Rowell proprietary cartridge that lets you load honest .224" rifle bullets in the .22TCM9R guns!
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#28 ·
You should actually consider a 22 tcm instead of 5.7. Side by side test. the Tcm was more powerful vs the 5.7

If you look into RIA pistol. they have a combo 1911. It comes with 22 tcm barrel and a 9mm barrel. Comes in both single stack or double stack 1911.

The 22 TCM is a hoot to shoot. Big fireball, big concussion. but there's no recoil on your wrist.